nk15

You must be kidding, right? My link has flights on United for 2.5k-2.8k including the direct IAD-CPT. Sure he has to position to Canada and CPT, but he may do that cheaply and save himself a couple of thousand. Heck, he can even drop the last leg on the return and get off at IAD on the CPT-IAD direct. He may even play with open jaws for better results…

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...BxWUVRPT0SAggB

zombietooth

OP will most likely have checked bags, so dropping the return leg @ IAD is probably not an option. 2 extra positioning flights (costing how much?), and 16 hours more of total transit time to save 2K doesn't sound like such a great deal. In addition, every extra segment adds risk of a misconnect.

irishguy28

Indeed, but that's not where this comes from; in general, fewer people fly on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, meaning that there's a greater chance that the cheaper fare buckets are still available on those days.

The below is from my own personal record on my.flightradar24.com and conforms to this "norm"....

TOMFORD

Like folks have said before... $4-5k rt from US to anywhere outside of Europe is pretty normal for all J. If you mix in coach and don't mind 2 connections then yes it'll get cheaper to 3k.

nk15

He can put the last leg on an evening flight that day...He probably has to pick up and re-check his bags at IAD anyway. (maybe)...and just skip and take them and go home....

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...nh3dUpZUhICCAE

xliioper

This. The vast majority of discount business class fares have significant advance purchase requirements which can be found in their fare rules (available on UA website or third parties like ITA Matrix) The current cheapest UA business class fares out of IAD to CPT (ZNA67ENC fare basis code) are $5345 roundtrip (with taxes on non-stop routing) and have a 60 day advance purchase requirement along with a 7 day minimum stay requirement (as part of roundtrip booking requirement). Availability of this fare can vary based on bucket availability on flights in Z fare bucket. But that is as cheap as they will get absent new fare filings (which certainly happen from time to time, but don't happen as frequently as many people seem to believe). Most changes in pricing that people see is simply due to varying bucket availability on the flights they are checking and do not actually involve new fare filings on route. At any rate, while you can wait and hope for new lower Z fare filings to come out, the chances of the 60 day advance purchase requirement for the cheapest Z fares going away is likely nil.

As others have noted, you can get significant savings by flying other carriers like TK who have cheaper business class fare filings than UA out of IAD. Or repositioning to other cities that have lower fare filings to CPT on UA (airfare pricing is point-to-point based, and not hop-by-hop). Absent that, you can set a fare alert on Google Flights for UA on the dates you wish to travel and hope a lower fare filing pops up at some point (along with Z bucket availability on UA flights on dates you wish to fly). But if you wait past the 60 day mark prior to desired travel, there's likely zero probability you see something cheaper due to advance purchase requirements on cheapest Z fares

serpens

I'm sorry, but I must be missing something. How is "long-haul business class" distinct from "Domestic and international travel markets, especially in J"? I assume that somehow a flight is a business route or a travel market, but how?

As a follow-on question, in which category would San Francisco to New Orleans (SFO-MSY) fall?

Thanks for the clarifications, and thank you, jsloan, for your contributions to this forum.

findark

Long-haul Business (usually Polaris-marketed) tends to have a very different fare table structure from domestic flights.

Domestic First (and short-haul Business to Canada/Caribbean/etc) uses differential faring and the longest advance purchase is almost always 21 days. Therefore, there is rarely any benefit to purchasing much before 21 days in advance unless the fare table or inventory is uncommonly advantageous at the moment. Guessing blind, the odds strongly favor better fares and better inventory at some point after, say, 8 months in advance.

Long-haul Business uses much longer advance purchases on its fare table. It is quite common for only D fares to be available within 28 days, and P fares are typically 60, 90, 120, 150, or 180-day advance purchase. There are generally two strategies to getting low fares: (1) book at least ~90 days in advance during known discounted periods (Christmas, European August, etc.) and pay a moderately discounted rate, or (2) leverage your flexibility to hit often 0-day sale fares that get posted to Premium Fare Deals. The latter frequently requires positioning to make split-ticket connections on one or both ends of the trip, as demonstrated by the sub-$3,000 YYZ-JNB solution above, or simple flexibility of choosing your trip destination based on what sales show up.

Both strategies vastly benefit from being flexible in travel dates over, say, a 28-day period and pulling up an inventory list to pick and choose days with P space.

jsloan

Long-haul business class refers to a "international travel market, especially in J." In other words, the intent was to separate "domestic" from "international," not "domestic and international" from "long-haul business." Upon a second reading… it's not the most clear thing I've ever written. Sorry.

Business markets / routes (vs. leisure markets / routes) depend upon the primary travelers on that route, understanding that you'll always have some leisure travel on business routes and vice-versa. SFO-NYC is a heavy business route; so is SFO-LHR. SFO-MSY is a leisure route; while there's certainly business travel to MSY, more of the passengers are likely to be leisure travelers.

You can sometimes tell by the airlines that fly a route, too, at least domestically. The more LCC/ULCC carriers that fly a route, the more likely it Is to be a leisure route. Example -- Allegiant flies to a ton of Florida destinations, and they're pretty much all leisure travel.

findark did a fantastic job of making the point I was trying to make, which is that in international markets, and particularly in international business markets, UA segments its fares very, very differently than they do in domestic markets. You'll almost never see a 90-day advance purchase fare domestically, but they're quite common for discount business class internationally. They're intended for well-heeled leisure or VFR (visiting friends / relatives) travel, but because so much of UA's profit margin is driven by last-minute long-haul business class purchases, they simply can't afford to sell those discount fares to actual business travelers. All of which goes back to my original point, which is that, in contrast to what one poster said about being able to buy first-class seats at a discount 1-2 days before travel, the norm for long-haul business class is quite the opposite.

Happy to help.

DCAhome

I was able to pick up the IAD-CPT direct back when the P fare was available for $3500 r/t. Those tickets disappeared quickly. I was booking about 9-10 months in advance.

zombietooth

At IAD, you have two ways to go upon exiting an international flight; one way to arrivals and one way to connections, where you will remain midfield. At the midfield facility, you will clear immigration and customs and then recheck your bags. If you kept your bags, you would have to get them through the TSA checkpoint to access the concourse and exit. I don't think that it's possible to do this.

nk15

So he will go to arrivals then. Immigration is not concerned that he is skipping the leg. He is arriving at 5:40 am anyway and his next leg is at 6pm. He has a meeting in town, or an emergency at home, if asked.

findark

The problem is that your bag is tagged to midfield based on the connecting flight. You must go to midfield to physically obtain your bag. Once in midfield you are trapped: you cannot exit the airport without reclearing security, and you cannot bring your bag with you unless it fits though a TSA checkpoint.

nk15

What is this midfield bs, UA has created a trap at IAD, lol...Just leave your bag at midfield, if you have to, and go home, and call and say you had a family/medical emergency and had to interrupt the trip and they will ship it to your home... Or travel HBO.

Does anyone remember this from February 2022, I almost booked it, but did not, because I wanted the direct flight from the US on the outbound and a stopover in Europe on the return and could not price it over Xmas, when I really wanted it, it was error-ring at the final payment...but I could price it at other dates and during summer...

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/prem...-business.html

zombietooth

It's not UA that created the system. This affects all airlines in the A-D concourses.