Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

No Bags On TK/UA/LX Cash Ticket In J booked by UA?

No Bags On TK/UA/LX Cash Ticket In J booked by UA?

Old Jul 18, 2022, 9:16 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New York
Posts: 17
No Bags On TK/UA/LX Cash Ticket In J booked by UA?

I recently booked a J ticket with cash via United on Turkish Airlines and Swiss Airlines. My routes are IST > FRA > EWR (Turkish Airlines & United) and return EWR > ZRH > DXB (Swiss).

I got an email from United saying baggage is no longer included and they would charge $175 per bag on partners! The rate is even higher at $220 per bag on Swiss!

How is this possible to have a business class paid ticket with no baggage? Is this a new thing with United?

I also have a friend that booked the same route itinerary except their IST > FRA leg is on Lufthansa and they have baggage included on all routes (including the return on Swiss).

The rate per bag is way higher than expected can anyone advice how they navigated this and if there is in-fact a way to get baggage included?
TravelSeason is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 9:27 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 20,975
Originally Posted by TravelSeason
I recently booked a J ticket with cash via United on Turkish Airlines and Swiss Airlines. My routes are IST > FRA > EWR (Turkish Airlines & United) and return EWR > ZRH > DXB (Swiss).

I got an email from United saying baggage is no longer included and they would charge $175 per bag on partners! The rate is even higher at $220 per bag on Swiss!
United seems to be eternally unable to handle baggage calculations involving partners.

Your baggage allowance will be based upon the marketing carrier of the first flight (i.e., whether it's a TK flight number or a UA flight number), but it doesn't really matter because the answer is the same either way: two free bags up to 50 lbs / 23 kg.

You'd think UA would realize that every time they get this wrong, they're violating a DOT regulation, but... 🤷‍♂️
SPN Lifer likes this.
jsloan is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 9:31 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,304
Originally Posted by TravelSeason
I recently booked a J ticket with cash via United on Turkish Airlines and Swiss Airlines. My routes are IST > FRA > EWR (Turkish Airlines & United) and return EWR > ZRH > DXB (Swiss).

I got an email from United saying baggage is no longer included and they would charge $175 per bag on partners! The rate is even higher at $220 per bag on Swiss!

How is this possible to have a business class paid ticket with no baggage? Is this a new thing with United?

I also have a friend that booked the same route itinerary except their IST > FRA leg is on Lufthansa and they have baggage included on all routes (including the return on Swiss).

The rate per bag is way higher than expected can anyone advice how they navigated this and if there is in-fact a way to get baggage included?
Could you share a screenshot of or paste text from the email?

Seems perhaps related to this issue, which is causing some consternation, clearly:
Turkish Airlines automatically reduced baggage allowance

Do you have a stopover at ZRH (>24h) or a connection? Whatever is going on with the TK bag fees, I tend to think any prospective charges for baggage on the return are definitely a mistake (i.e. should have normal UA allowance).
fumje is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 9:45 am
  #4  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Ti, LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,096
I see the minimum TK free allowance on any international business class flight as 30 kg. https://www.turkishairlines.com/en-k...QaAuUhEALw_wcB

The TG baggage calculator is pretty worthless.
jsloan likes this.
Kacee is online now  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:20 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New York
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by fumje
Could you share a screenshot of or paste text from the email?

Seems perhaps related to this issue, which is causing some consternation, clearly:
Turkish Airlines automatically reduced baggage allowance

Do you have a stopover at ZRH (>24h) or a connection? Whatever is going on with the TK bag fees, I tend to think any prospective charges for baggage on the return are definitely a mistake (i.e. should have normal UA allowance).
In my original email I had a baggage section that showed 2 bags are included and 4 included on the return for Swiss. United sent me an update itinerary and it included this section of the email that showed bags will be charged.

Here is the screenshot from my original email when I booked:



Prior to this when I logged into United it showed my baggage allowances but now it says "Prepay & Save". My friends ticket still has his baggage included but if this was a Turkish Airlines issue then also why is my Swiss flight also charging? All layovers are short (less than 3 hours) and my original reservation has it included

Last edited by TravelSeason; Jul 18, 2022 at 10:27 am Reason: adding old screenshot for reference
TravelSeason is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:32 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: Delta Plat, UA Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 258
would say shocked, but generally unsurprised by united price increases/removal of benefits now

business seats are expensive, might as well ring them up for more!
critten is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:38 am
  #7  
Moderator: United Airlines
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.98MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,199
Originally Posted by TravelSeason
...if this was a Turkish Airlines issue then also why is my Swiss flight also charging? All layovers are short (less than 3 hours) and my original reservation has it included
Because the DOT rules states the bag allowance of the first marketed flight (TK in this case) applies to the return. Generally that is to prevent an allowance decrease on the return. The return airline is allowed a higher allowance but can use the original number.
Originally Posted by critten
would say shocked, but generally unsurprised by united price increases/removal of benefits now

business seats are expensive, might as well ring them up for more!
This has nothing to do with UA greed. This is TK and the DOT rules for bags. UA has no role in setting the bag allowance for this trip and will receive no revenue

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 18, 2022 at 10:55 am Reason: greed
WineCountryUA is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:38 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,214
I had this issue flying back from IST a few months ago. Needless to say, they did not charge for bags--- either for me (travelling Biz) and my son (a 1K member, travelling in Economy on the TK leg, but biz on the United leg).
porciuscato is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:39 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco/Sydney
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Something, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 8,118
Originally Posted by critten
would say shocked, but generally unsurprised by united price increases/removal of benefits now
OP is flying TK. The baggage fees for a trip where the first leg is TK have nothing at all to do with UA. (Misreporting of such fees on a UA-sent email is a different thing and could lie with UA, but if the fees are actually correct then that's 100% on TK)
docbert is online now  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:50 am
  #10  
Moderator: United Airlines
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.98MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,199
What does TK state on their ticket itin? The bag allowance report is confusing (as unfortunately is common for UA when a partner is involved). The first refers to TK as determining the bag allowance. The second as TK has differed to operating carrier (which is TK).

Is this a codeshare?

This differing is a case where the UA system gets messed up.

Best to assume the original TK bag allowance. Either way TK will collect the fee and there will be no fee collected in FRA.

UA handles the reporting of this poor but the fee collection seems to be generally correct.
WineCountryUA is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:52 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 20,975
OP: The single most important question is, what's the marketing carrier of your first flight? That is, are you flying TK123 or flight UA8123 operated by TK? That indicates whose baggage policies should prevail.

The receipt -- which, to be clear, is often wrong despite the fact that each incorrect receipt is a DOT violation -- indicates that TK originally chose to defer to UA, as the Most Significant Carrier for the journey, which is preferred under IATA rules and permitted (but not required) by the DOT. The second email indicates that TK is no longer deferring to UA, which is contrary to IATA policy but allowed by the DOT. I don't actually know whether or not there's any regulation that would prohibit TK from changing its mind about deferring to UA, although it's certainly against the spirit of the DOT regulation. None of this is even possible if the first flight is a UA code, which is why it's important to know that detail.

Regardless, TK includes baggage with every J ticket. The only real question is whether they'd apply their intra-Europe rule (30 kg total) or their to-US rule (2x23 kg). I would expect the latter, but I'm not entirely sure.
SPN Lifer likes this.
jsloan is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 10:56 am
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,304
Originally Posted by TravelSeason
In my original email I had a baggage section that showed 2 bags are included and 4 included on the return for Swiss. United sent me an update itinerary and it included this section of the email that showed bags will be charged.
img
Here is the screenshot from my original email when I booked:
img


Prior to this when I logged into United it showed my baggage allowances but now it says "Prepay & Save". My friends ticket still has his baggage included but if this was a Turkish Airlines issue then also why is my Swiss flight also charging? All layovers are short (less than 3 hours) and my original reservation has it included
I think all the fees shown in the new email are an error.

I suggest have the original email showing $0 handy for when you check in. If ultimately an agent suggests a fee and refuses to override, I would pay it and submit a dispute through the credit card issuer.

There is a lot of minutiae about bag rules, but I think you have a strong argument that no fees will be due (i.e. the original email), so I would not worry about it.
jsloan, roberto99 and coolbeans202 like this.
fumje is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 11:09 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Programs: United, EVA, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by fumje
I think all the fees shown in the new email are an error.

I suggest have the original email showing $0 handy for when you check in. If ultimately an agent suggests a fee and refuses to override, I would pay it and submit a dispute through the credit card issuer.

There is a lot of minutiae about bag rules, but I think you have a strong argument that no fees will be due (i.e. the original email), so I would not worry about it.
This baggage fee confusion is going to end up creating a headache for OP. There is a chance the TK agents refuse to honor free baggage and charge $175+ per bag. Disputing with CC will potentially lead nowhere.
Flyertalk - Turkish Airlines charging for baggage on TK operated flight (United Award): United Award for TK and charged baggage fee. CC did not approve dispute.
Reddit-Reasons to Avoid TK: Same thing, charged bag fees. CC did not approve dispute.
Reddit - TK booked with UA Award, had to pay for bags
RK23 is offline  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 11:15 am
  #14  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Ti, LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,096
Originally Posted by jsloan
The receipt -- which, to be clear, is often wrong despite the fact that each incorrect receipt is a DOT violation -- indicates that TK originally chose to defer to UA, as the Most Significant Carrier for the journey, which is preferred under IATA rules and permitted (but not required) by the DOT. The second email indicates that TK is no longer deferring to UA, which is contrary to IATA policy but allowed by the DOT. I don't actually know whether or not there's any regulation that would prohibit TK from changing its mind about deferring to UA, although it's certainly against the spirit of the DOT regulation. None of this is even possible if the first flight is a UA code, which is why it's important to know that detail.

Regardless, TK includes baggage with every J ticket. The only real question is whether they'd apply their intra-Europe rule (30 kg total) or their to-US rule (2x23 kg). I would expect the latter, but I'm not entirely sure.
Yep. UA frequently gets this wrong, both on the emailed receipt and the reservation display. I currently have a UA ticketed LX itinerary in J - UA didn't send me a receipt, and there's no reference at all to baggage allowance in the reservation. I'm not sure if this is an improvement on what UA has consistently done in the past, which is (incorrectly) show zero free bags. I am nonetheless confident, based on LX's published rules and numerous past experiences, that the rule for this particular ticket is three bags at 32 kg (since I'm *G).

Originally Posted by fumje
There is a lot of minutiae about bag rules, but I think you have a strong argument that no fees will be due (i.e. the original email), so I would not worry about it.
Agree, except my reasoning is a little different. Under TK's own published rules, the minimum allowance on any business class fare is 30kg.
jsloan and SPN Lifer like this.
Kacee is online now  
Old Jul 18, 2022, 11:24 am
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,304
Originally Posted by RK23
This baggage fee confusion is going to end up creating a headache for OP. There is a chance the TK agents refuse to honor free baggage and charge $175+ per bag. Disputing with CC will potentially lead nowhere.
Flyertalk - Turkish Airlines charging for baggage on TK operated flight (United Award): United Award for TK and charged baggage fee. CC did not approve dispute.
Reddit-Reasons to Avoid TK: Same thing, charged bag fees. CC did not approve dispute.
Reddit - TK booked with UA Award, had to pay for bags
I can't speak for what happened with others, but every chargeback I have had to make has been successful. In my experience, the key is to be clear about what the charge was, what the charge should have been ($0, here), and have concise evidence of the correct charges if it is requested.

Originally Posted by Kacee
Yep. UA frequently gets this wrong, both on the emailed receipt and the reservation display. I currently have a UA ticketed LX itinerary in J - UA didn't send me a receipt, and there's no reference at all to baggage allowance in the reservation. I'm not sure if this is an improvement on what UA has consistently done in the past, which is (incorrectly) show zero free bags. I am nonetheless confident, based on LX's published rules and numerous past experiences, that the rule for this particular ticket is three bags at 32 kg (since I'm *G).

Agree, except my reasoning is a little different. Under TK's own published rules, the minimum allowance on any business class fare is 30kg.
Also strong evidence, and best to save a copy of that for reference at the counter as well.
SPN Lifer likes this.
fumje is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.