Very close call: reported to UA
Feb 19, 2022, 2:17 pm
#1
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Very close call: reported to UA
I experienced a very close call (midair) on a United Express flight and reported it to United. They said they would take it up with The UA partner and determine how it happened. We are talking closing speeds of 900 plus knots at cruising altitude at night. We are talking 150 feet of separation at nearly opposite directions, crossing at 10 degree approximate paths.
Did I do the correct thing here? I will PM details of anyone wants to know them but I don’t want to publicly post.
Did I do the correct thing here? I will PM details of anyone wants to know them but I don’t want to publicly post.
Feb 19, 2022, 2:26 pm
#3
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Believe pilots are required to report these. Have no fear at least one will. Additionally l believe ATC will auto detect
Feb 19, 2022, 3:52 pm
#4
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I’m a non-commercial pilot but was a passenger who saw the near miss out my side window. It was air-show close and we were buffeted by the contrail and wake from the oncoming aircraft which was a private jet—kind of hard to classify more at that closing speed and distance.
Feb 19, 2022, 4:05 pm
#6
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If neither pilot maneuvered then it definitely wasn’t as close as it seemed. Anything that close would have triggered a TCAS RA. If there was indeed a RA then those are mandatory reports so it would be investigated automatically, and a loss of separation that close would also automatically trigger a mandatory report at the ATC facility.
Feb 19, 2022, 4:20 pm
#7
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You can contact the local FSDO office.
Feb 19, 2022, 4:22 pm
#8
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I’m a non-commercial pilot but was a passenger who saw the near miss out my side window. It was air-show close and we were buffeted by the contrail and wake from the oncoming aircraft which was a private jet—kind of hard to classify more at that closing speed and distance.
Seriously, I'm doubtless you saw something.
Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Feb 19, 2022 at 5:16 pm
Feb 19, 2022, 4:24 pm
#9
Join Date: Aug 2018
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I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way you were within 150ft, nose-to-nose and neither pilot or TCAS did anything to increase the separation.
You were at least 1,000ft (using RVSM) and/or 3nm/5nm unless some sort of visual separation was being applied, but I doubt at night ANY pilot would risk such a thing, or some controller royally messed up and both TCAS' weren't working.
It is amazing how close aircraft appear. I was once on a FAM sitting jump-seat on an AA DC-10 to LAX when a FedEx MD-10 came, what appeared head-on. We saw him from about 15nm out. It looked like he was going to come through the flight deck window......passed directly overhead, 2000ft above us.
You were at least 1,000ft (using RVSM) and/or 3nm/5nm unless some sort of visual separation was being applied, but I doubt at night ANY pilot would risk such a thing, or some controller royally messed up and both TCAS' weren't working.
It is amazing how close aircraft appear. I was once on a FAM sitting jump-seat on an AA DC-10 to LAX when a FedEx MD-10 came, what appeared head-on. We saw him from about 15nm out. It looked like he was going to come through the flight deck window......passed directly overhead, 2000ft above us.
Last edited by RetiredATLATC; Feb 19, 2022 at 4:30 pm
Feb 19, 2022, 4:58 pm
#10
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Add me to the list of people who believes that you think you saw that, but there's no possible way that you actually could have gauged separation and closing speed from your window at night, and it's almost certainly the case that the aircraft were not as close as you thought they were.
Reporting what you saw to United is the sort of passenger behavior that causes so many UA pilots to turn off Channel 9. Passengers think they hear something wrong and "call it in," resulting in challenging discussions for the pilots involved with their chief pilot (what the British call a "meeting without tea or biscuits").
What is it that you expected to get out of that report?
Reporting what you saw to United is the sort of passenger behavior that causes so many UA pilots to turn off Channel 9. Passengers think they hear something wrong and "call it in," resulting in challenging discussions for the pilots involved with their chief pilot (what the British call a "meeting without tea or biscuits").
What is it that you expected to get out of that report?
Feb 19, 2022, 5:20 pm
#11
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 178
go to LiveATC.net or other aviation forums and ask those guys if they can find you the air traffic recording for your flight....
if it was really that close, either pilots would have screamed or cursed... or at least the air traffic controller would...
if it was really that close, either pilots would have screamed or cursed... or at least the air traffic controller would...
Feb 19, 2022, 5:23 pm
#12
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Since they said they were at cruising altitude, unless OP happened to note exactly where they were when it happened, it would be tough to figure out what Center frequency to listen to. If OP knew the time, they might be able to pull the track from Flightradar 24.
Feb 19, 2022, 5:30 pm
#14
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I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way you were within 150ft, nose-to-nose and neither pilot or TCAS did anything to increase the separation.
You were at least 1,000ft (using RVSM) and/or 3nm/5nm unless some sort of visual separation was being applied, but I doubt at night ANY pilot would risk such a thing, or some controller royally messed up and both TCAS' weren't working.
judge distance and the distance was definitely no more than 200 feet max from our wing. I was closer to 150.
It is amazing how close aircraft appear. I was once on a FAM sitting jump-seat on an AA DC-10 to LAX when a FedEx MD-10 came, what appeared head-on. We saw him from about 15nm out. It looked like he was going to come through the flight deck window......passed directly overhead, 2000ft above us.
You were at least 1,000ft (using RVSM) and/or 3nm/5nm unless some sort of visual separation was being applied, but I doubt at night ANY pilot would risk such a thing, or some controller royally messed up and both TCAS' weren't working.
judge distance and the distance was definitely no more than 200 feet max from our wing. I was closer to 150.
It is amazing how close aircraft appear. I was once on a FAM sitting jump-seat on an AA DC-10 to LAX when a FedEx MD-10 came, what appeared head-on. We saw him from about 15nm out. It looked like he was going to come through the flight deck window......passed directly overhead, 2000ft above us.
The other aircraft wend by like a SAM. We crossed his contrail and there was a strong buffet as we did so. It was nuts.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 19, 2022 at 6:06 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Feb 19, 2022, 5:33 pm
#15
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I am a pilot, A&P and have received schooling in aircraft accident investigation. We had a leaking door seal and the pilot flying was descending and while it’s possible ATC allowed these two AC to cross that close, there’s absolutely no way TCAS wasn’t screaming on both aircraft. My boss who was a few rows back saw it too but his eyesight is not as good. I trust my measurements. I was there.
Which brings me back to my question - what exactly were you hoping to accomplish by contacting UA with this information?