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Given changing travel patterns would UA shrink Business/increase PremPlus ?? (LH may)

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Given changing travel patterns would UA shrink Business/increase PremPlus ?? (LH may)

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Old Oct 2, 2021, 2:12 pm
  #1  
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Given changing travel patterns would UA shrink Business/increase PremPlus ?? (LH may)
More evidence for the thesis that the large exodus of Other People's Money no longer paying for so many business class tickets may change the industry fundamentally.

Lufthansa is telling Bloomberg, ON THE RECORD, that airlines may scrap business class entirely and focus on selling Premium Economy.

That makes total sense if business travel is shot and people are for the most part going to be paying their own money for tickets.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/airlines-...124503008.html
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Old Oct 2, 2021, 2:14 pm
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
More evidence for the thesis that the large exodus of Other People's Money no longer paying for so many business class tickets may change the industry fundamentally.

Lufthansa is telling Bloomberg, ON THE RECORD, that airlines may scrap business class entirely and focus on selling Premium Economy.

That makes total sense if business travel is shot and people are for the most part going to be paying their own money for tickets.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/airlines-...124503008.html
I figured something like this would happen. Maybe keep a small business class cabin for high end leisure travelers and go with a larger PP cabin. Maybe increase the pitch to 40-42 inches as well. Basically, make it mid 1990s business class
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Old Oct 2, 2021, 5:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
I figured something like this would happen. Maybe keep a small business class cabin for high end leisure travelers and go with a larger PP cabin. Maybe increase the pitch to 40-42 inches as well. Basically, make it mid 1990s business class
In the "everything old is new again" song, we've gone from F/J/Y to J/PE/Y.
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Old Oct 2, 2021, 6:09 pm
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Originally Posted by wpcoe
In the "everything old is new again" song, we've gone from F/J/Y to J/PE/Y.
With there already being talk of lie flat seating in PE, I wonder if in 25 years we will be right back to this same situation
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Old Oct 2, 2021, 6:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
With there already being talk of lie flat seating in PE, I wonder if in 25 years we will be right back to this same situation
the old United 2-4-2 business class was always just premium economy in disguise. Anyway, I wouldn’t put too much into the LH statement.
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 4:41 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Lufthansa is telling Bloomberg, ON THE RECORD, that airlines may scrap business class entirely and focus on selling Premium Economy.

That makes total sense if business travel is shot and people are for the most part going to be paying their own money for tickets.
Sorry, but context matters.

Premium-economy seats are around 40% more profitable per square foot of a plane's cabin space than business class, Lufthansa told Bloomberg. The airline has premium-economy cabins on each of its 102 long-haul aircraft, and is considering replacing some business-class seats with more premium-economy ones, it told Bloomberg.

Lufthansa Technik, the airline's division that focuses on cabin maintenance and repair, told Bloomberg that it has received enquiries from other airlines considering shrinking business class so that they could add premium-economy sections. Some Asian airlines are even considering scrapping business class completely, the company told Bloomberg, without naming the airlines.
You make it sound like the end of business class is coming, when in reality you left out the the fact that what Lufthansa said is that they are considering shrinking business class in favor of larger PE sections, that other airlines are considering the same thing, and that only some Asian airlines are considering eliminating business class.

I could easily see LH doing this on their 350's that have a small J section aft of door 2L
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Last edited by halls120; Oct 3, 2021 at 4:48 am
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 7:45 am
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Originally Posted by halls120
Sorry, but context matters.
It certainly does.

Meanwhile, American Airlines is considering ADDING business class seats.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american...ats-on-planes/

So much for that theory…
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
It certainly does.

Meanwhile, American Airlines is considering ADDING business class seats.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american...ats-on-planes/

So much for that theory…
To be fair, doing the opposite of what Doug Parker does, seems to be the right thing. He usually ends up having to reverse course, like he had to do with the seatback entertainment
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 8:38 am
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Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
To be fair, doing the opposite of what Doug Parker does, seems to be the right thing. He usually ends up having to reverse course, like he had to do with the seatback entertainment
Indeed, and this action would be an undoing of his earlier choice to rip out premium seats.
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 9:43 am
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WestJet may have the cabin configuration mostly right with a very small business class section, followed by PE

They also do something UA should do, that is they sell their domestic F as PE. Wish UA would follow, use the O, A, R codes for Domestic F, since it is a PE product, not a J product
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 10:37 am
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
More evidence for the thesis that the large exodus of Other People's Money no longer paying for so many business class tickets may change the industry fundamentally.

Lufthansa is telling Bloomberg, ON THE RECORD, that airlines may scrap business class entirely and focus on selling Premium Economy.

That makes total sense if business travel is shot and people are for the most part going to be paying their own money for tickets.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/airlines-...124503008.html
on the other hand LH is reporting massive increase (300%) of TATL bookings and disproportionately for C/F, after the US announced the country is opening up to European travelers. LH also confirmed they are bringing back A346 in order to be able to satisfy F demand out of MUC and new A359s will come with F for the MUC market. So all of this and the above can't be true at the same time. It'll take some time to recover from the current situation, but airlines have down-sized C cabins before just to be met with 'high demand' which then led UA for example to get a high-J 763 going. I doubt we'll see massive changes in the near future.
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 10:42 am
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Since UA has already invested in Polaris seating - and modified the service, meals, experience to nothing more than PE, there's really nothing more to do here...
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 11:47 am
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
More evidence for the thesis that the large exodus of Other People's Money no longer paying for so many business class tickets may change the industry fundamentally.

Lufthansa is telling Bloomberg, ON THE RECORD, that airlines may scrap business class entirely and focus on selling Premium Economy.

That makes total sense if business travel is shot and people are for the most part going to be paying their own money for tickets.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/airlines-...124503008.html
Ha. LH already wiped out J from all of their narrow body aircraft. I’m sure they’d disagree but we all know otherwise.
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by cfischer
on the other hand LH is reporting massive increase (300%) of TATL bookings and disproportionately for C/F, after the US announced the country is opening up to European travelers. LH also confirmed they are bringing back A346 in order to be able to satisfy F demand out of MUC and new A359s will come with F for the MUC market. So all of this and the above can't be true at the same time. It'll take some time to recover from the current situation, but airlines have down-sized C cabins before just to be met with 'high demand' which then led UA for example to get a high-J 763 going. I doubt we'll see massive changes in the near future.
I think there's always going to be a small but real market for international. F.

But business class is going to decline in the post-pandemic/zoom era, a lot. And again, LH is saying this ON THE RECORD.
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Old Oct 3, 2021, 12:53 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
I think there's always going to be a small but real market for international. F.

But business class is going to decline in the post-pandemic/zoom era, a lot. And again, LH is saying this ON THE RECORD.
“Decline” is such an ambiguous term. Decline from what? To what? The Lufthansa quote in context is much more nuanced.
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