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US government to award Newark slots to low cost competitor of UA

US government to award Newark slots to low cost competitor of UA

Old Sep 17, 2021, 3:26 am
  #1  
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US government to award Newark slots to low cost competitor of UA

Seems like this could help UA flyers by keeping fares down.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/exclusive-u-award-newark-flights-152553828.html
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 7:24 am
  #2  
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Seems like this could help UA flyers by keeping fares down.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e...152553828.html ​​​​​​
This is for "a yet-to-be-determined low-cost carrier".
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 9:09 am
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Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
This is for "a yet-to-be-determined low-cost carrier".
As baseball fans might say, a low cost carrier to be named later.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 9:14 am
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Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
This is for "a yet-to-be-determined low-cost carrier".
Sounds like United could get these slots when you see what they have became!
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 9:37 am
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Seems like this could help UA flyers by keeping fares down.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e...152553828.html
I heard about this, but I was confused. Newark isn't slot-controlled.

Gary's article has a little more detail: https://viewfromthewing.com/the-u-s-...ot-controlled/

Apparently, the slots are desirable because, even though the airport isn't slot-controlled, it might be in the future, and airlines who held those rights in the past would get first priority at retaining them.

So, don't expect this to have much of an effect on Newark airfare, because any carrier that wants to fly in/out of Newark already can, at whatever traffic level they can manage with the gates they can lease. However, it might mean that, at some future date, a return to slot-controlled status would be slightly less painful for Newark flyers.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 10:17 am
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Originally Posted by jsloan
I heard about this, but I was confused. Newark isn't slot-controlled.

Gary's article has a little more detail: https://viewfromthewing.com/the-u-s-...ot-controlled/

Apparently, the slots are desirable because, even though the airport isn't slot-controlled, it might be in the future, and airlines who held those rights in the past would get first priority at retaining them.

So, don't expect this to have much of an effect on Newark airfare, because any carrier that wants to fly in/out of Newark already can, at whatever traffic level they can manage with the gates they can lease. However, it might mean that, at some future date, a return to slot-controlled status would be slightly less painful for Newark flyers.
"I will gladly pay you today for slots I might have a use for in the future"?

Aren't slots generally transferable/assignable? So conceivably... slots at a non-slot-controlled airport are awarded to a 3rd carrier that may or may not actually have a use for them, and if that carrier is awarded them and if EWR becomes slot controlled in the future and if the rules at the time EWR becomes slot controlled still favor incumbent slot holders...that airline could sell/lease some or all of their slots to UA or a 4th carrier?

Ugh. My head hurts too much for a Friday.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by lincolnjkc
"I will gladly pay you today for slots I might have a use for in the future"?

Aren't slots generally transferable/assignable? So conceivably... slots at a non-slot-controlled airport are awarded to a 3rd carrier that may or may not actually have a use for them, and if that carrier is awarded them and if EWR becomes slot controlled in the future and if the rules at the time EWR becomes slot controlled still favor incumbent slot holders...that airline could sell/lease some or all of their slots to UA or a 4th carrier?

Ugh. My head hurts too much for a Friday.
Even though slots at EWR arent needed to operate, an airline awarded them will have to use them to keep them. Isnt that why Southwest lost them?
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio
Even though slots at EWR arent needed to operate, an airline awarded them will have to use them to keep them. Isnt that why Southwest lost them?
I read it as WN having to give them up because they pulled out of the airport entirely. If the airport isn't slot controlled, how can you use the slot? (conversely, if you have to have slots even though the airport isn't slot controlled...how does an airline with no slots not use something they don't have). If that is an accurate interpretation an LCC with X slots could operate I flight and sublease IX slots in theory.

Before EWR became unslotted wasn't there an agreement between CO/UA and (IIRC) DL to slot swap between EWR and LGA -- e.g. COUA would take some of DL?s EWR slots in exchange for DL? taking some of COUA's LGA slots?

But that's only one of the reasons I said my head hurt
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 12:24 pm
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I just don't see the needle moving on airfare if they get another LCC at EWR.

To move the needle at EWR, they need AA, DL, WN, or B6 to aggressively take more flights - and lower fares.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 12:30 pm
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UA has lost a good chunk of shares to B6, specifically, in recent years. I could see the momentum continuing in the coming years with the completion of the new terminal.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Seems like this could help UA flyers by keeping fares down.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e...152553828.html
Unlikely. The issue is about carriers wanting to claim slots at a non-slot-controlled airport so that if future slot restrictions are introduced, these carriers will have a better chance at building or maintaining service.

Already, any budget carrier can add as many flights as its chooses under current gate constraints.

Newark is a tricky market. Southwest tried it and pulled out.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 2:15 pm
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My understanding of the issue isn't that NK/B6 want "slots" that can be sold at some point in the future, it's that they want to operate flights at peak times now and the FAA was refusing to approve the flights they scheduled during what were WN's slots. FAA was refusing to approve the scheduled departures as part of it's "schedule facilitated" program in an attempt to alleviate EWR's standard afternoon delays.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 2:59 pm
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Originally Posted by goyankees32790
My understanding of the issue isn't that NK/B6 want "slots" that can be sold at some point in the future, it's that they want to operate flights at peak times now and the FAA was refusing to approve the flights they scheduled during what were WN's slots. FAA was refusing to approve the scheduled departures as part of it's "schedule facilitated" program in an attempt to alleviate EWR's standard afternoon delays.
I get the LCC's position here, and hey, competition isn't a bad thing for the consumer... but I'll err on the side of "move the %*(!$!# planes". Those delays are atrocious and as an EWR captive, clearing those matters a whole lot more to me than a fare war for Disney flights. Those are going to be expensive since we take the family on holidays anyway - just means someone can get to fly Spirit at United prices.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 3:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Repooc17
UA has lost a good chunk of shares to B6, specifically, in recent years. I could see the momentum continuing in the coming years with the completion of the new terminal.
B6 would actually need to start expanding their route network, because as of right now its pretty weak.
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Old Sep 17, 2021, 4:29 pm
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Originally Posted by WIRunner
B6 would actually need to start expanding their route network, because as of right now its pretty weak.
Have you seen B6's operations at EWR? It's big time. B6 has been using its own gates at Terminal A, but also those from other carriers, including UA.
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