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New travel restrictions to USA from India 4 May 2021, impacts on UA DEL/BOM flights?
Biden administration to restrict travel from India starting Tuesday CNN
"On the advice of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Administration will restrict travel from India starting immediately," White House press secretary Jen Psaki said in a statement on Friday. "The policy will be implemented in light of extraordinarily high COVID-19 caseloads and multiple variants circulating in the India. The policy will take effect on Tuesday, May 4." The administration will issue a 212(f) order restricting entry into the US for foreign nationals who have been in India within the previous 14 days, a source familiar with the move said. Airlines have been told of the decision, a source said.The new policy will take effect on Tuesday at 12:01 am ET. The policy will not apply to American citizens, lawful permanent residents or other people with exemptions. As with all international travelers, individuals who fit that criteria traveling from India must still test negative prior to leaving the country, quarantine if they have not been vaccinated and test negative again upon reentering the US from India. The restrictions also do not apply to humanitarian workers. |
I suspect many of the fliers are US citizens on UA - and since they are exempt, nothing may change.
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Looks like India flights will be suspended starting Tues the 4th.... why the wait ?
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Originally Posted by featheroleather
(Post 33217207)
Looks like India flights will be suspended starting Tues the 4th.... why the wait ?
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i'm surprised it took so long to take a call on the ban....ideally it should have happened weeks ago....
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There may actually be an evacuation effect.
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They'll just downgauge to a CR2.
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Actually really curious about this - we have an equipment installer here that is scheduled to return to India on May 9. I believe he flew in on United. I presume the Indian government will let him in, since he's an Indian citizen - but I don't know if UA will cancel flights altogether if flight from India to US are going to be empty after a few days...
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Originally Posted by rishib
(Post 33217502)
Actually really curious about this - we have an equipment installer here that is scheduled to return to India on May 9. I believe he flew in on United. I presume the Indian government will let him in, since he's an Indian citizen - but I don't know if UA will cancel flights altogether if flight from India to US are going to be empty after a few days...
I also wonder how much cargo has an influence. If they still need the lift for that, maybe they are willing to run more relatively empty pax cabins if cargo areas are full all the time. |
the Administration will restrict travel from India starting immediately The policy will take effect on Tuesday, May 4. |
And there goes my hope of returning on the SFO-BLR nonstop on May 31st..
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
(Post 33217366)
There may actually be an evacuation effect.
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Originally Posted by featheroleather
(Post 33217207)
Looks like India flights will be suspended starting Tues the 4th.... why the wait ?
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Seriously, this won't make much difference at all. Not exactly a ton of tourists flying. With the huge Indian diaspora in the US, UA and AI will continue their flights completely full with just American citizens and Perm Residents. lol.
The routes will remain either way. That cargo $$$. |
Originally Posted by HGHUA
(Post 33217727)
Seriously, this won't make much difference at all. Not exactly a ton of tourists flying. With the huge Indian diaspora in the US, UA and AI will continue their flights completely full with just American citizens and Perm Residents. lol.
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As someone who flies this route a lot.... My guess is they will reduce service but not completely stop it.
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UA has posted the update to entry criteria for those flying India-USA:
United States: Entry Restrictions (includes the May 4th change to travellers from India) David |
Originally Posted by HGHUA
(Post 33217727)
Seriously, this won't make much difference at all. Not exactly a ton of tourists flying. With the huge Indian diaspora in the US, UA and AI will continue their flights completely full with just American citizens and Perm Residents. lol.
The routes will remain either way. That cargo $$$. India Flight Update Last week our EWR-DEL flight landed and the crew was asked to take a COVID-19 test. This test had not been, and was not supposed to be, required for crew entering the country of India. The captain of the flight refused the test on behalf of the entire crew, because there was insufficient and unsatisfactory information about what might happen if any of the crew were to test positive and be required to quarantine in India. As you may be aware, India is in the midst of an unprecedented surge in the instances of COVID infection at the moment, where medical care is scarce and oxygen is in low supply. The crew did not take the test, and did not clear immigration and customs, and instead returned to the United States. Due in part, to the uncertainty of what expectations may be when entering India, United temporarily halted flights into the country to determine solutions. As of tomorrow, Wednesday 28, there will be pre-departure COVID-19 testing for all United crews headed to DEL. AFA along with ALPA are in contact with United corporate medical and Medaire to ensure there is mitigation for crew safety. Pre-departure testing is a simple procedure that reduces the opportunity for any ill Flight Attendant to enter India and potentially end up requiring medical care or end up in quarantine. Additionally, there are currently steps in place in case a crew member does become ill while on a layover in DEL. AFA, ALPA and United corporate medical will continue to monitor and evaluate the safety of this destination. Additionally, United published two Safety Alerts with updated information about travel into New Delhi (and other countries with restrictions), with comprehensive information, including a Q&A. We encourage you to be familiar with the information prior to checking in for any international pairing. |
After that situation in DEL, UA flights to/from BOM were less disrupted than UA's service to DEL.
The UA crew coming into DEL then didn't like the idea of being selected for testing, and it certainly wasn't a regular thing for all crews coming into DEL.
Originally Posted by emcampbe
(Post 33217520)
id guess they would have fewer flights. Maybe go back to DEL/BOM-EWR only. Or do those on alternate days - DEL-EWR one day, DEL-SFO next. Or 2-4 times a week? Something like this - although it makes crew scheduling more difficult.
I also wonder how much cargo has an influence. If they still need the lift for that, maybe they are willing to run more relatively empty pax cabins if cargo areas are full all the time. |
The US policy exempts US citizens and permanent residents and their dependents, this group typically is a good percentage of the traffic. Another huge chunk is H1b, then tourists or business persons with Indian passport and then students. If they exempt H1b and students, then only a small portion of the traffic is restricted.
However traffic will go down significantly, as most of citizens and permanent residents will not travel except for dire emergencies and business trips will be curtained sharply. |
Originally Posted by hyho61
(Post 33217992)
The US policy exempts US citizens and permanent residents and their dependents, this group typically is a good percentage of the traffic. Another huge chunk is H1b, then tourists or business persons with Indian passport and then students. If they exempt H1b and students, then only a small portion of the traffic is restricted.
However traffic will go down significantly, as most of citizens and permanent residents will not travel except for dire emergencies and business trips will be curtained sharply. |
Originally Posted by malgudi
(Post 33217675)
Flights are not being suspended, entry is being restricted to a small subset of travelers.
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 33218010)
I expect UA will be getting a lot of people wondering how UA is with bereavement fares to fly from the US to India[.]
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Originally Posted by ty97
(Post 33217435)
They'll just downgauge to a CR2.
Back to the topic, how is this enforced? Does India stamp on exit? Can they just fly via another country? If so, maybe UA will get some more traffic on other routes. |
By virtue of losing its large Indian passenger numbers Air India will cancel flights...but connections will continue.
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Good morning all,
The topic of this thread is travel restrictions effect on UA’s service to India. Please focus the discussion on that and for a general discussion of COVID/politics, please use the appropriate forum. Safe Travels, J.Edward UA form co-moderator |
https://unitedafa.org/news/2021/4/30...begins-tuesday
Based on the above, it does not appear that UA will stop flights to India. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 33217963)
After that situation in DEL, UA flights to/from BOM were less disrupted than UA's service to DEL.
The UA crew coming into DEL then didn't like the idea of being selected for testing, and it certainly wasn't a regular thing for all crews coming into DEL. back on topic though, is there a provision that allows India to test incoming crew - randomly or otherwise?
Originally Posted by eng3
(Post 33218467)
Back to the topic, how is this enforced? Does India stamp on exit? Can they just fly via another country? If so, maybe UA will get some more traffic on other routes.
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Flying from India to the US via third-countries on a single ticketed UA PNR -- as someone who isn't a US citizen and/or US LPR -- to try to get around the US travel restriction?
Sounds like an invitation to get a US visa and/or ESTA cancelled and have future US travel problems. CBP will have been provided the ticketed itinerary by UA. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 33220004)
Flying from India to the US via third-countries on a single ticketed UA PNR -- as someone who isn't a US citizen and/or US LPR -- to try to get around the US travel restriction?
Sounds like an invitation to get a US visa and/or ESTA cancelled and have future US travel problems. CBP will have been provided the ticketed itinerary by UA. I think the bigger risk would be someone booking on separate PNRs - ie, booking say, BOM-LHR on AI or BA, and then separately booking LHR-IAD on UA. If they were an Indian National though, they’d need to meet existing US requirements like getting a Visa or ESTA. I doubt they are issuing those to restricted populations at the moment, and agree that any visa docs that are still valid could be pulled pretty quickly if an airline reports an attempted boarding (not sure what the requirements are for an airline to do that). |
Originally Posted by emcampbe
(Post 33219986)
...
yes, India does exit immigration, and they stamp passports. I don’t know how UA actually enforces with a third-country connection, but that seems like an easy way. I don't remember if they have exit stamps. I don't recall anyone flipping through every page of my passport to check. Some people have more than one passport too I guess. The US does have the attestation form that everyone is supposed to sign, so maybe they go by the honor system. Though on my last trip, the airline insisted I need to sign a form for a transfer country (Germany I think) and did not have me do the US form so I never had to sign it. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 33220004)
Flying from India to the US via third-countries on a single ticketed UA PNR -- as someone who isn't a US citizen and/or US LPR -- to try to get around the US travel restriction?
Sounds like an invitation to get a US visa and/or ESTA cancelled and have future US travel problems. CBP will have been provided the ticketed itinerary by UA.
Originally Posted by emcampbe
(Post 33220134)
I’m not sure that this would be much of a risk - on the same PNR, UA wouldn’t allow boarding on their flight, and realistically, the airline operating the flight ex-India wouldn’t either, as they need to (or at least should be) following US restrictions - believe US can restrict foreign carriers from operating flights to the US if they violate US restrictions - and even if that carrier doesn’t operate US flights, they could restrict code sharing with US carriers.
I think the bigger risk would be someone booking on separate PNRs - ie, booking say, BOM-LHR on AI or BA, and then separately booking LHR-IAD on UA. If they were an Indian National though, they’d need to meet existing US requirements like getting a Visa or ESTA. I doubt they are issuing those to restricted populations at the moment, and agree that any visa docs that are still valid could be pulled pretty quickly if an airline reports an attempted boarding (not sure what the requirements are for an airline to do that). a ua pnr won't work because that would mean flying out of india, spending 14+ days in another country & then traveling on to usa....with ua, the only way one can do that is to halt for those 14+ days either somewhere in the schengen area or the uk....a non-usa citizen/resident can't enter usa from either of those places....plus entry from india to the schengen area & the uk is currently banned as well.... what looks like a workable solution is to fly to another country on a separate pnr, spend 14+ days there & the fly to usa on another pnr....unfortunately most countries have banned entry from india so that doesn't leave too many options....the only 2 places i can think of at the moment where flights are still operating from india are sri lanka & turkey....i think entry to usa from both those countries is allowed....however this option is pretty inconvenient & would be expensive.... |
Indian citizens indeed aren't banned from entry to the US, but most Indian citizens are restricted from travel/entry to the US if they've been in India within the most recent 14 days.
There are so many exceptions available to so many Indian citizens -- on top of all the US citizen residents/seasonal residents of India -- coming from India to the US that this "ban" shouldn't be a problem for UA to get quite the number of passengers on at least its DEL-US flights even were the "flee to home" traffic to end up being but a trickle. And if the European, the Gulf and East Asian routes remain mostly dried up, then UA will have less competition for the remaining passenger traffic from India to the US during the days ahead. If I had to bet, I would bet that the poor person's version of business class on UA flights is less likely to be available on its India-US flights than on most of its Europe-US flights for at least now. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 33221488)
Indian citizens indeed aren't banned from entry to the US, but most Indian citizens are restricted from travel/entry to the US if they've been in India within the most recent 14 days.
There are so many exceptions available to so many Indian citizens -- on top of all the US citizen residents/seasonal residents of India -- coming from India to the US that this "ban" shouldn't be a problem for UA to get quite the number of passengers on at least its DEL-US flights even were the "flee to home" traffic to end up being but a trickle. And if the European, the Gulf and East Asian routes remain mostly dried up, then UA will have less competition for the remaining passenger traffic from India to the US during the days ahead. If I had to bet, I would bet that the poor person's version of business class on UA flights is less likely to be available on its India-US flights than on most of its Europe-US flights for at least now. |
Originally Posted by Keyser
(Post 33221503)
fair enough however i think the travel ban is going to remain for a while & the number of people allowed to travel between the 2 countries is going to dry up pretty quickly....no business or tourist travels only leaves usa citizen/residents who are allowed to travel....not too many people want to travel to india at the moment unless they really have to & the number of people fleeing india will do so soon....
US citizens; US LPRs; foreign spouses of US citizens; foreign spouses of US LPRs; unmarried U21 foreign children of US citizens; unmarried U21 foreign children of US LPRs; unmarried U21 siblings of US citizens; unmarried U21 siblings of US LPRs; unmarried U21 dependents of US citizens; unmarried U21 dependents of US LPRs; E-1 treaty traders of sorts and their relatives; USG-approved healthcare-related travelers; USG-approved national interest exemptions which include a whole lot of students and many others. Even if this restriction were to last beyond July, there are still millions of people from India who will remain eligible to continue to fly directly from India to the US and/or from the US to India. UA will probably want to continue serving the market even with the higher fuel costs. |
Let's return to discussion of UA and the UA flights. Discussion of entry sub-classes or ways to evade the regulations are not UA specific and therefore belong elsewhere.
WineCountryUA UA coModerator |
Any news Re the start of SFO-BLR late May? Hope this survives even if frequencies suffer in the immediate future
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Originally Posted by uastarflyer
(Post 33222164)
Any news Re the start of SFO-BLR late May? Hope this survives even if frequencies suffer in the immediate future
Once things calm down and we get past this, I'll likely be on that flight. Not sure if AA has made any updated announcements about it's BLR flight - I still have my doubts if it's SEA-BLR will ever take off. I suspect business travel was a big reason to launch this flight, and that segment isn't coming back just yet. Yes, lots of trips with folks going back and forth to visit families, too, but most of the leisure fares aren't going to pay the ULH penalty that adds to the costs of running this flight. On the other hand, maybe this will take on a lot of cargo that will make it worth it, as there is no current direct flight to South India from the US (except for maybe AIs twice weekly SFO-BLR, though I'm not sure if that's running now), and this will likely save time rather than having to fly via BOM/DEL, EU or another Asian hub like HKG. |
Cargo demand is huge, but, the amount of passengers on us->IN routes are dropping dramatically. In->US are at capacity. If cargo can keep up the difference, the flights will run. I agree with the previous post that the BLR-USA routes are really business centric and those routes will take awhile to come back.
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Originally Posted by emcampbe
(Post 33229309)
I suspect it will be delayed until the situation improves in India. Late summer or fall seems about right to me (but then again, I'm not an airline route scheduler, so that's just my amateur guess). Then again, I figured with everything going on now, UA would have cut capacity on its other India routes, and maybe I'm not paying enough attention, but I didn't hear about a reduction of flights so far (besides the regular IRROPS).
Once things calm down and we get past this, I'll likely be on that flight. Not sure if AA has made any updated announcements about it's BLR flight - I still have my doubts if it's SEA-BLR will ever take off. I suspect business travel was a big reason to launch this flight, and that segment isn't coming back just yet. Yes, lots of trips with folks going back and forth to visit families, too, but most of the leisure fares aren't going to pay the ULH penalty that adds to the costs of running this flight. On the other hand, maybe this will take on a lot of cargo that will make it worth it, as there is no current direct flight to South India from the US (except for maybe AIs twice weekly SFO-BLR, though I'm not sure if that's running now), and this will likely save time rather than having to fly via BOM/DEL, EU or another Asian hub like HKG. |
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