FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   United Airlines | MileagePlus (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus-681/)
-   -   United COO to employees: Consider voluntary separation / New 2021 separation program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/2017125-united-coo-employees-consider-voluntary-separation-new-2021-separation-program.html)

Silver Fox May 5, 2020 1:25 am


Originally Posted by gmt4 (Post 32349248)
How long until others announce the same thing? DL, AA, B6, WN, F9, NK? UA can't be alone in the pain.

BA has recently announced ~30% reduction. They will all join the rest of the herd soon.

jsloan May 5, 2020 1:29 am


Originally Posted by spartacusmcfly (Post 32349494)
UA employees, before deciding what to do, read up on the WARN act. It will likely be triggered in every major UA office.

While this is good advice in general, notification in July of a layoff on October 1 appears to be within both the spirit and the letter of the law.

writerguyfl May 5, 2020 3:19 am


Originally Posted by username (Post 32349487)
I too don't understand why people would voluntarily leave if there is no severance package and no unemployment. What is the incentive?

Smart people would only voluntarily leave if they have a new job.

While airlines certainly have a lot of very specialized jobs, they also have people who can easily use their skills in other industries.

Obviously, Flight Attendants and Pilots aren't likely to easily find a new job before October. But, ramp workers might be able to find a job in logistics. Ticket/gate agents might be able to find customer service positions. And employees at the call centers might (rather easily) find work at other call centers.

Stuff like that.

Silver Fox May 5, 2020 4:22 am

I think that even outside of the airlines this world is about to enter a period of economic feudalism the like we have never seen, and certainly never experienced, before. These are dark times.

EuropeanPete May 5, 2020 4:47 am

Am I the only person to find the use of the term "separation" here cringeworthy? Why this continual obsession with mis-using longish words in corporate speak in the US nowadays?

EWR764 May 5, 2020 5:04 am


Originally Posted by spartacusmcfly (Post 32349148)
There was an article this morning about 30% pilot reductions. This quote from UA's Chief Pilot was disturbing:

“This displacement bid aligns pilot staffing to a schedule reduction of around 30%, yet our schedule in May, and our expected schedule for June, is reduced by 90%. No one knows when travel demand will return, so unfortunately, the results of this displacement are likely to be a baseline from which future displacements are conducted.”

Is he saying pilot reductions will be proportional to schedule reductions? If that's true for other functions (FAs, mechanics, etc.) then UA might go from 100,000 employees on Jan 1, to 10,000 employees on Oct 1? That would be a tragedy.

We discussed this before. It is not a directly proportional relationship to the entire workforce.

If the zero-demand/zero-revenue environment is still the case in October, we are looking at a collapse of the global economy and most assuredly the end of the line for most airlines.

At this point, 30% cut (2020 vs. 2019) is the target for most airlines, but this is definitely a “plan for the worst, hope for the best” scenario. 6 weeks ago, a transient 70% demand drop was a worst-case estimate. It’s incredible to consider the speed and intensity with which this situation evolved.

Antonio8069 May 5, 2020 5:36 am

considering the age of the FA's
 
Vol separations may make sense for UA.. They last went into bankruptcy in 2002, when their pension plan was replaced with a savings plan. That helps explain why I see so many FA's working who are over age 65. Withour a pension, the main incentive to continue workig is/was the travel benefits. The value of this benefit has been significantly reduced, so why not separate?

emma dog May 5, 2020 5:39 am


Originally Posted by writerguyfl (Post 32349658)
Smart people would only voluntarily leave if they have a new job.

While airlines certainly have a lot of very specialized jobs, they also have people who can easily use their skills in other industries.

Obviously, Flight Attendants and Pilots aren't likely to easily find a new job before October. But, ramp workers might be able to find a job in logistics. Ticket/gate agents might be able to find customer service positions. And employees at the call centers might (rather easily) find work at other call centers.

Stuff like that.

Youre assuming companies are hiring. At 25% unemployment, I don’t think finding a new job is possible for significant numbers of UA employees.

united 1k flyer May 5, 2020 8:10 am

Wow. This is horrible news. I feel so bad for all those United employees who have to find new jobs. United must really for fast that things are going to be bad if their laying off 30% of employees. What if things get a lot better much faster. What will United do. Let’s hope their like a whether man.

Weatherboy May 5, 2020 8:18 am


Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 32349421)
So we taxpayers gave United, and other carriers, billions in bailout money with the result being a massive cut in service and coverage and a plan to decimate the workforce the moment the no-layoff restriction is lifted at midnight Sept 30?

I think we've been taken for a ride on this deal - the bailout should have required an immediate layoff so people could collect unemployment with the $600 subsidy today through end of July and regular unemployment through end of the year, with a requirement for 75% or better payroll restoration no later than January 1, 2021, or the government would assume full equity ownership of the carrier until the loan was paid back. What idiot inked this dumb arrangement?

Unless we see a big bounce back in the economy within 30-45 days, which is unlikely, I am hopeful the morons in Washington will extent that $600 through end of the year. It can make a huge difference for people who are laid off in an industry where finding replacement work is not easy.

That is true with all of the stimulus programs: a one-time $1,200 payment, the $600/week extra PUA for a few months, super limited/restricted PPP, and the nearly nonexistent EIDL and it's ghost-sibling, the EIDL advance. The American government cannot afford to keep band-aiding these massive wounds indefinitely. And they surely can't prop up United or any airline until the goalpost of having a cure/vaccine is hit ...if it's even possible. And this disaster is not just with the travel industry: it is wide and deep across most. {removing OMNI topics} there's only so many levers you can pull when the economy is effectively shut down indefinitely.

COGal May 5, 2020 8:18 am

After 20 years of feeling like I've been hanging on by my fingertips I can honestly say I'm done. I've elected Voluntary Separation taking the severance and looking forward to doing something else. I put my resume out yesterday and have two interviews tomorrow. I'm looking forward to my next chapter.

Weatherboy May 5, 2020 8:19 am


Originally Posted by COGal (Post 32350172)
After 20 years of feeling like I've been hanging on by my fingertips I can honestly say I'm done. I've elected Voluntary Separation taking the severance and looking forward to doing something else. I put my resume out yesterday and have two interviews tomorrow. I'm looking forward to my next chapter.

Good luck to you & your future!


Originally Posted by username (Post 32349487)
I too don't understand why people would voluntarily leave if there is no severance package and no unemployment. What is the incentive?.

It serves as a reality-check for people to take control of their own destiny rather than wait for someone else to make the decision for them. If you were considering a new career or going back to school for an education in something different, it may be a better to plan that route now rather than wait until October when it may be too late to enroll in or try something new. If someone was on the fence about whether or not their job was viable, now would be a good time to update the resume and get it out there now; that would give you at least 4-5 months lead ahead of the inevitable downsizing coming in the fall.

And even if there was significant "voluntary separation", they'll still need to make even more significant job cuts if demand remains non-existent.

CALMSP May 5, 2020 8:37 am


Originally Posted by united 1k flyer (Post 32350143)
Wow. This is horrible news. I feel so bad for all those United employees who have to find new jobs. United must really for fast that things are going to be bad if their laying off 30% of employees. What if things get a lot better much faster. What will United do. Let’s hope their like a whether man.

I think over the last few years, the amount of money/cash UA was making, they were literally creating/making new positions left and right. I believe they've become way to heavy in Sr Managers and above. I will always believe in great opportunities for a company, one still needs to look at are we making positions just because or do we get a good ROI on this position.

UAL250 May 5, 2020 8:39 am


Originally Posted by emma dog (Post 32349829)
Youre assuming companies are hiring. At 25% unemployment, I don’t think finding a new job is possible for significant numbers of UA employees.

This. A lot of people are out of work right now, and while the service industry has been hardest hit, it's starting to hit a lot of people. I know someone whose husband works for GE and they're laying off a significant number of people in the engineering department apparently (with more to come in the summer). Universities/schools are suffering, hospitals are laying off tons of people, etc. More and more people starting to get impacted.

There's a reason experts predict a double-digit unemployment rate (11-16%) into 2021.

WineCountryUA May 5, 2020 8:51 am


Originally Posted by CALMSP (Post 32350225)
I think over the last few years, the amount of money/cash UA was making, they were literally creating/making new positions left and right. I believe they've become way to heavy in Sr Managers and above. I will always believe in great opportunities for a company, one still needs to look at are we making positions just because or do we get a good ROI on this position.

Saw this report from Reuters, United Airlines to cut 30% of management in October, preparing pilot changes too: company memos

United Airlines Holdings Inc (UAL.O) plans to cut at least 3,400 management and administrative positions in October as the coronavirus pandemic crushes air travel demand,


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:43 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.