WheelsUpGal

My sister was scheduled to fly to Des Moines from Chattanooga via ORD today. Flight showed on time then was cancelled "because of airport conditions on the runway/taxiway". Every other flight this morning departed. The United flight only had 7 people (according to the seat map) on it. My theory is they didn't fly due to lack of passengers. Is she entitled to a refund for her flights? Had to book with American at considerable expense. No, she didn't have insurance. It was only a 2 day trip. I guess I can't prove anything but . . . Is "conditons on the runway" weather related? The flight was cancelled 90 minutes before it was to take off. I am monitoring the Chattanooga Airport departures.

xliioper

Doesn't matter why it was cancelled. You are entitled to refund if you choose to cancel your trip or find other means of transport.

MBS MillionMiler

In most cases, sister should not have had to book their own ticket, if there is space, United should have moved her over to American (mostly done at the airport if sis doesn’t have status, but can also be done by phone with a good agent). But if it’s already done with American and not refundable through them, then yes, she is entitled to a refund on those segments she was unable to fly (the whole one way, not just the canceled flight). Always ask to be rerouted on another carrier before rebooking on your own.

Also, the problem is at ORD. Many cancellations due to ice/weather, hence “runway conditions”. In that case, the flight was primarily canceled due to weather, but because United is most likely directed by the FAA (or even their own ops department) to cancel X many flights, they are going to start with lighter loads—better to inconvenience 8 people from DSM than 150 going to San Francisco to catch international flights, for example.

MSPeconomist

If the flight delay or cancellation occurs on the outbound, she's entitled to a refund of the entire ticket, not just the outbound portion.

In fact, if the outbound isn't flown (either on UA or on flights rebooked by UA), the remaining portion of the ticket would normally be cancelled, so she needs to contact UA if she plans to use the return flights after purchasing a new ticket for the outbound part.

BTW, DL also serves DesMoines, so I wonder whether there would have been an available DL connecting itinerary for her that wouldn't go through ORD.

I suspect that the runway conditions problem occurred at ORD which has some snow.

WheelsUpGal

Never mind - looks like weather in Chicago . . Called the Chattanooga Airport! Nice guy helped me out.

She bought a one way on American and texted that Christmas was going to be from Dollar Tree because of it! She was planning to take the United flight home and I told her they might cancel it - she then called United and they marked her as a No Show but said she was OK to use the Return. She said she DID try to get United to rebook but it's a small airport with not the most . . . seasoned . . . . agents?

Appreciate all the replies and help. I really do. THANK YOU!!!

findark

Pretty standard wx... took a GDP slot delay of ~3h00 and since the frame was schedule CHA-ORD-RST-ORD they decided to scrub CHA-ORD-RST and ferry CHA-RST instead since it avoids using an ORD GDP slot.

As mentioned, if pax chooses not to use the ticket, yes a refund is due.

zrs70

your theory is wrong. Airlines do not cancel due to lack of passengers at one airport. Think about the cargo. Think about where the plane is needed after your flight. Think about where the crew needs to be. Think about a lot of things that don�t have to do with your particular need!

mduell

^ this

They didn't cancel it just because of the light loads, they cancelled it due to the runway/taxiway constraints at ORD forcing huge delays (which can be mitigated with cancels) and it was high on the list to cancel due to the lack of impact on the network.

The ferry flight for the aircraft and crew to resume their schedule departs shortly.

jsloan

In general, her options were a refund, to take another United flight, or to try to get UA to put her onto another airline (AA or DL, in that order; they won't rebook onto Southwest, Allegiant, etc., because they don't have agreements in place with them).

Unfortunately, it can be a real challenge to get UA to rebook onto another airline when the cancellation is caused by weather. It's possible, but they definitely prefer not to do it. There is another CHA-ORD-DSM flight scheduled for tonight, although ORD-DSM is currently full in Economy. (I'm not sure how it looked earlier).

jhayes_1780

While the OP doesn't specify: Do I remember correctly UA will not even consider moving to O/A is it is a Basic Economy ticket?

MBS MillionMiler

That shouldn�t matter, my home airport is smaller than either CHA or DSM, and also staffed by contract agents that come and go often...They�ve always been able to reroute me on Delta when things go sideways at ORD. And beyond that, when they run into issues, they have what�s called a �help desk�, basically intra-company reservations that are empowered to do a lot more than regular phone agents and are specifically there to walk inexperienced employees/agents do �difficult� tasks.

That being said, and probably moot at this point, persistence pays off, if there are seats on another carrier, they CAN put you on (but not on those Jsloan mentions above). But it�s often getting the agents to do it. And if that fails, call reservations.

Often1

The whole thing sounds unfortunate. For the benefit of others, the focus should be on getting rerouted. Calling the airport and the like does not move that ball along.

I am surprised that UA would not reroute her given that there were apparently no better UA options. My experience is as above that agents at smaller stations are more likely to reroute OA if only because they are used to it and know that UA receives traffic when other carriers cancel. At a large hub, there is more likely to be a UA option even if it is less convenient.

The passenger is, of course, entitled to a full refund of the outbound segment. But, given that this is a round-trip ticket and she has already had to call to reinstate the return, she should wait to do anything until she has flown the return, particularly as it is only 2 days away. It is easy enough for a UA phone agent to get this wrong, cancel the ticket, issue a refund and have the passenger find out that after all of this, her return is once again cancelled.

WheelsUpGal

I appreciate all the replies. She had to pay American Airlines $600 for a same day ticket. She was offered a flight at 5pm which I believe was too late - I haven�t checked but United might ONLY fly to Chicago from Chatt? I called the airport (not really expecting them to answer) because the reason on United�s website for the cancellation was a problem with the runway - yet other flights were taking off and landing. I couldn�t call United on her behalf. Was just trying to understand why it was cancelled. She doesn�t travel much.

The saddest thing is that because of this unexpected expense, she texted that she�ll be doing her Christmas shopping at Dollar Tree this year.

Thanks again for for all the help looking up the flight in question and suggestions for resolution. I DO appreciate it!

PS. Yes, she bought a Basic Economy ticket. My sister is not travel savvy.

jsloan

Yes, UA�s only service from CHA is to ORD. Incidentally, the 5:25 PM flight was also cancelled.

It�s always very frustrating for passengers to see that another airline is operating flights, but there are a host of reasons for that. In this case, the most likely explanation is that there was a reduction in the number of available landing slots. When that happens, the operations team looks for adjustments that will impact the fewest people. Unfortunately, your sister was one of the ones who were affected.

Of course you can. If you have a confirmation number (or flight number, really) and a last name, you can access somebody�s record. If you explain that you�re calling on behalf of your sister, it won�t raise an eyebrow, particularly assuming that you can provide basic information (e.g., her birthday).

Unfortunately, she got an expensive lesson in the vagaries of travel. To wit, if you absolutely need to be somewhere on a given day, it�s often best to plan travel for the day before. She likely had other options � she could have started her trip from ATL, BNA, or BHM, most likely. Getting UA to endorse a Basic Economy ticket to another carrier during weather IRROPS... I�m not surprised that they refused.

I hope her trip home is less eventful.