Zealex

Haha I've seen that phrase from /r/churning quite often so I am familiar with it but yeah I will try again Monday, if not I'll write to 'em on Monday during my lunch break or some free time during work. I find it weird for chase business cards, the ability to do a CB is completely removed online and HAS to be by phone.


EDIT: Also the agent said they cannot initiate a chargeback because LOT is an international vendor and they cant do anything with an international vendor.

No i went through the DOT's website. I filled out everything and uploaded everything because, it was all required for a submission.

The agent emailed me saying he cant only file anything if there's no complaint, which I asked for clarification about since I included what I bolded up in one of my earlier replies. I will see when he replies what he meant and go forward from there. Otherwise I'll resubmit everything Monday...

What DOT baggage regulation are you referring to? A bunch of PDF's are here : https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/baggage but it's referring to damage/mishandled etc.

Often1

Although I do not believe that the DOT rule ultimately helps you, this is the text:

14 CFR § 399.87 Baggage allowances and fees.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ from those of any operating carrier.

DOT has consistently interpreted "itinerary" to mean "ticket" and that makes sense. The problem I see is that the ticket you presented to LO was issued by LY and that is not the UA ticket you started with and which included the baggage allowance you believe you had.

Once your complaint to DOT is complete, it will be forwarded to LO for a response. LO will do one of three things: 1. Ignore it (many non-US carriers do). 2. Respond with a substantive answer which might be to explain that it does or does not owe a refund and has done so. 3. Not bother researching the issue, simply issue a refund and so advise DOT.

threeoh

We all know that, but if OP can't extract $127 from the airlines for the baggage fee but can extract $660 from the airlines as an "inconvenience fee", that seems better than nothing.

Write to them and ask. Say you need a delay letter for your travel insurance stating the cause of the delay. Or ask on twitter DM, sometimes faster response depending on the airline.

Zealex

Hey Y'all

Just wanted to post an update.

I had to call Chase about a month ago to initiate a charge back(you cannot do a CB online with chase biz cards, so calling is required) against LOT which was unsuccessful since they said it was an "agreed and delivered service", however the rep asked me a few more questions and said they would have to charge back United from the info I shared since they didn't fully deliver.

So they initiated a CB against United, and the other day I got a letter in the mail stating they solved my dispute in my favor so I was able to get my 127ish back.

Thanks for everyone's help

murphyUA

And this is why asking for advice on FT isn't always the best idea, since numerous posters advised you NOT to do exactly what solved your issue.

Glad it worked out. I probably would have disputed the charge with United as well, since they were the original agent who sold me a ticket.

jsloan

Because it doesn't make any sense. There's absolutely no reason that UA should have had to pay for something that had nothing to do with them.

That is patently absurd. By that logic, if you had purchased your ticket from a travel agent, you would have initiated a chargeback against the agent?

Chase messed something up here. If they were going to accept a chargeback, it should have been against LO, who were the people who charged the erroneous fee in the first place.

threeoh

Many people have explained the logic upthread: United was hired by OP to convey person+luggage from point A to point B. United didn't do that. OP is owed a partial refund.



Also covered ad nauseum, but LO said "$120 please" and OP presented a credit card (and presumably signed the receipt or whatever). OP agreed to those charges and LO fulfilled their obligation. It's UA that failed to fulfill an obligation here.

JimInOhio

If UA really cares about this small amount of money, I'm sure they have a process in place to get it back from LO.

Zealex

Thank you.

Hopefully I don't have any issues when booking with United in the future, tho I think I will stick with other carriers from now on.

jsloan

The fact that many people have explained absurd logic doesn't make it any less absurd. United was not hired. They acted as a travel agent.

If there were a UA flight number, fine, there might be an argument (but still a weak one). There is absolutely no justification for targeting United except that it worked.

That's every bit as ridiculous. If LO had demanded a $5000 "boarding the plane fee," you'd have said, "well, they allowed OP to board the plane; I guess it's really UA"s fault for not preventing it." LO incorrectly charged a fee to pay for a service that had already been purchased. It's double-billing.

threeoh

The justification for requesting a refund from United is that United is who OP paid money to in the first place.

Your example is bad because there is no such fee, and United never claimed to have collected money for a "boarding the plane fee". Maybe a better example is if LO said "Hey, United never sent us your departure tax; if you want to get on the plane you have to pay $26.50 departure tax". My United receipt says that I already paid them the departure tax. I'd pay the departure tax to LO now and try to get a refund from UA later.

Agree it's double billing. There are kind of arguments both ways about which bill should be refunded. IMO the arguments are stronger for UA to provide the refund as they are the ones who failed to provide what was promised in exchange for payment, and I guess Chase agrees.

Let's try another example where the same thing happens but there is no double billing. Let's say OP pays $80 for an E+ seat on UA; due to irrops, OP is re-routed on AA and is not given a Main Cabin Extra seat, and instead flies in normal Economy.

Personally, I'd try to get my E+ fee refunded from UA, not AA. I never paid AA any money; why would I seek a refund from them?

If I separately decided to pay AA for an upgrade to Main Cabin Extra, I would not then try to charge that back. I'd pursue my refund with United via phone, refund request, and chargeback if necessary.

jsloan

No, OP paid the money to LO.

We were never able to identify an actual baggage fee that matched what LO's computers came up with anyway. The closest was for excess luggage on a domestic flight, I think, since the amount seemed to be denominated in Zloty instead of Euro, which they use for longhaul flights.

United also never claimed to charge a baggage fee.

LO would still be in the wrong there.

We're talking past one another. UA didn't fail to provide anything. They weren't contracted to provide anything. They merely sold a ticket for travel on another airline. This entire argument is predicated on assumptions that don't match reality.

That situation is in no way analogous. OP never paid UA a baggage fee.

E+ isn't a great example. How about, if you bought a PE ticket on UA; UA pushed it to AA, who seated you into Economy and forced you to pay a fare difference to get back into PE. Your claim is against AA, because they were the ones who charged you for something that you'd already paid for.

threeoh

OP said: "My receipt clearly states that I had one checked bag under 50lbs/23kg for my arrival and departure." OP upfared to a fare that included baggage; that's pretty similar to paying a baggage fee.

Let's instead pretend you buy a PE ticket on UA; you get pushed to AA and are seated in Main Cabin. Let's pretend you don't buy up to PE, you just sit in Y.

Would you pursue a refund from United or American?

Meola10

I’m pretty disappointed that United was practically pressured in to paying back something that it did not receive or owe in the first place. I’m also disappointed, but not surprised that people on here believe it is on United to return funds to the customer.

jsloan

No, it's not, especially when you consider that LO doesn't publish a fare on that route that doesn't include baggage.

American, because they were now in control of the ticket, assuming UA pushed it over properly. UA paid them already, basically.