Return Flight change question
#16
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Also the airlines have already factored into their intricate models the fact that you won't show up for the flight. They've got decades of historical travel data for them to estimate the proportion of no shows. Hence the reason why airlines rarely oversell their flights.
Safe Travels,
James
#17
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Please don't do that. While I can understand your frustration of UA's change policies and want to protest this stupidity, please consider the many passengers you may impact on doing this. Would you be happy flying to Tokyo (via San Francisco) from Newark only to misconnect at San Francisco because someone thought it was a great idea to make UA wait for a no show? Every action a pax does has unforeseen consequences that can be felt throughout the travel experience impacting people the pax may never have seen or were aware of.
-James
-James
LAX
#18
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-James
#19
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OP: I understand it is surely frustrating to have to pay basically more than twice the original fare after making a last minute change. However, making a change is often still cheaper than buying a fully refundable / flexible ticket. Most of us on FT have figured out that for any regular flyer, even if you have to bite the bullet once in a while and pay the change fee and the new (higher) rate, buying non-refundable tickets is still way cheaper than buying flexible / refundable tickets.
#20
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Please don't do that. While I can understand your frustration of UA's change policies and want to protest this stupidity, please consider the many passengers you may impact on doing this. Would you be happy flying to Tokyo (via San Francisco) from Newark only to misconnect at San Francisco because someone thought it was a great idea to make UA wait for a no show? Every action a pax does has unforeseen consequences that can be felt throughout the travel experience impacting people the pax may never have seen or were aware of.
-James
-James
At some point, they may hold if there are several travelers that they know are running a bit late due to a Delayed inbound, but let’s not pretend they will hold it for the OP (and for all we know, the OPs PNR know has a note in it).
#21
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Follow up: I was unable to accomplish any of this online, I could only cancel the entire round trip or make a change, at a higher cost. After a half hour on hold, I spoke to an agent. She split the PNRs, and after 20 or so minutes of back and forth, as she was confirming the cancel and that I would have a $142 credit, told me I had to pay the $200 change fee now. I told her I wasn't going to pay United for the privilege of not flying. No ma'am, you are changing your ticket and you must pay the fee. I asked to speak to a supervisor, trying to explain that I was not going to pay them money to not fly.
In this case, it's not entirely clear that the agent is wrong. I mean, I think the agent is wrong, and WineCountryUA and Kacee both indicated that you can do this, and I'm 100% certain you can do it after you've taken the outbound. But I'm not sure that the agent isn't technically correct when you're trying to make this particular type of change prior to departure, especially if your ticket was fared as a round-trip. You may have gotten a different answer if you had said "I know I'm going to have to stay later than the rest of the party, but I'm not sure exactly how long; can you cancel my return now, to free up the seat, and then I'll call back when I have my travel plans finalized?" Just a thought for next time.
This will accomplish nothing. When you don't show up for the flight, you'll be offloaded and they'll put somebody else into your seat. The only people you'll affect will be gate agents who had nothing to do (personally, anyway with your issue. What I would do, however, now that you're booked onto Alaska, is to have your husband let you know if there's a flight delay on EWR-SFO. If there is, and it's substantial enough, call UA and ask them to refund your PNR.
OP: As crazy as this sounds, UA (and most airlines) actually forbids buying a ticket and then not using it. I mean, they won't drag you onto the plane , but it's contrary to their contract of carriage (it's called throwaway ticketing). When you bought the ticket, they gave you a discount in exchange for some conditions; one of the conditions was that you would fly the itinerary as purchased or pay the necessary change fees to change it to something else. Now, they're known to be reasonable, and they understand that when the remaining credit is less than the change fee, few people are going to pay that fee, which is why I'm surprised that you ran into an agent who was being a stickler about it. But they're not wrong, per se -- they're just being pigheaded.
#22
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Follow up: I was unable to accomplish any of this online, I could only cancel the entire round trip or make a change, at a higher cost. After a half hour on hold, I spoke to an agent. She split the PNRs, and after 20 or so minutes of back and forth, as she was confirming the cancel and that I would have a $142 credit, told me I had to pay the $200 change fee now. I told her I wasn't going to pay United for the privilege of not flying. No ma'am, you are changing your ticket and you must pay the fee.
And I just realized the complication in the OP's situation - they needed to book an alternate flight back home on the same day from a different airport, and likely would run into problems with conflicting reservations. And, had they waited until flying the outbound flight before canceling the return, then the fare for the alternate return flight might have gone up.
In that particular set of circumstances, booking the return on an alternate airline might very well have been the best thing to do. But, I would drop the notion of how "you're really sticking it to them" by using another carrier. UA loses out under this particular set of circumstances, but I'm quite confident that overall, they are ahead by requiring a refare for changes before the initial leg is flown, and by preventing overlapping bookings.
Last edited by Steve M; Apr 28, 2019 at 1:12 am
#23
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In this case, it's not entirely clear that the agent is wrong. I mean, I think the agent is wrong, and WineCountryUA and Kacee both indicated that you can do this, and I'm 100% certain you can do it after you've taken the outbound. But I'm not sure that the agent isn't technically correct when you're trying to make this particular type of change prior to departure, especially if your ticket was fared as a round-trip.
OP: As crazy as this sounds, UA (and most airlines) actually forbids buying a ticket and then not using it. I mean, they won't drag you onto the plane , but it's contrary to their contract of carriage (it's called throwaway ticketing). When you bought the ticket, they gave you a discount in exchange for some conditions; one of the conditions was that you would fly the itinerary as purchased or pay the necessary change fees to change it to something else. Now, they're known to be reasonable, and they understand that when the remaining credit is less than the change fee, few people are going to pay that fee, which is why I'm surprised that you ran into an agent who was being a stickler about it. But they're not wrong, per se -- they're just being pigheaded.
#24
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#25
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Also I have no problem with you checking in for the flight and no showing.
#26
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I didn't want to make a new thread on this.
I have a somewhat convoluted itinerary. Here's my situation:
-Flew first flights DTW-IAH-NRT-BKK, all good
-Return is BKK-NRT(ANA)-EWR(Upgraded in PZ, booked in premium plus)-DTW
Online, the change function always crashes. I usually just get "error, please call web services". Web services told me that since the first leg is on ANA, and also since I've already flown the first part of my flights, I have to call to change the return flights. Is that true? And how in the heck can I price out what a different routing would cost? I obviously can't search one way fares, and don't have the routing rules from when I booked.
My other problem is I don't know what I want to change it to yet. And I feel like finding an alternative would be a complete shot in the dark, require a long hold with the rate desk, etc. It's a big mess right now, and ideally for me I could just change it online and see what the new fees and fare difference would cost. Any suggestions? If I don't pick a flight with Premium plus on it (which is what, NRT-SFO and NRT-LAX), I also fear that is further going to complicate things. I was hoping to get an ANA route across the pacific as they fly earlier from NRT.
I have a somewhat convoluted itinerary. Here's my situation:
-Flew first flights DTW-IAH-NRT-BKK, all good
-Return is BKK-NRT(ANA)-EWR(Upgraded in PZ, booked in premium plus)-DTW
Online, the change function always crashes. I usually just get "error, please call web services". Web services told me that since the first leg is on ANA, and also since I've already flown the first part of my flights, I have to call to change the return flights. Is that true? And how in the heck can I price out what a different routing would cost? I obviously can't search one way fares, and don't have the routing rules from when I booked.
My other problem is I don't know what I want to change it to yet. And I feel like finding an alternative would be a complete shot in the dark, require a long hold with the rate desk, etc. It's a big mess right now, and ideally for me I could just change it online and see what the new fees and fare difference would cost. Any suggestions? If I don't pick a flight with Premium plus on it (which is what, NRT-SFO and NRT-LAX), I also fear that is further going to complicate things. I was hoping to get an ANA route across the pacific as they fly earlier from NRT.
#27
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What change are you hoping to accomplish? Generally speaking, anything that "looks the same" as your original return (BKK-DTW in PE via a reasonable routing on *A) is probably going to be an even exchange if it has your original booking class available. You said yourself that you don't know what you want to change to, so it's a little bit tricky to comment.
I pulled a random DTW-BKK R fare from a month ago and this is probably what the tags are for your fare too:
Code:
OR - AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET VALIDITY CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF UA INTERNATIONAL FARES CHARGE USD 300.00 FOR REISSUE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS - CATEGORY 19 DISCOUNTS APPLY AND REPRICE USING CURRENTLY TKTD FARE PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET- 1. NO CHANGE TO FARE BREAKS 2. SAME FARE ON 1ST FARE COMPONENT IS USED 3. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST BE DOMESTIC 4. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT 5. UA FARES ARE USED 6. UA ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED 7. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET EXCEPT ADV RES-TKTG 8. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN ADD-COLLECT ENDORSEMENT BOX - HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS. OR - AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET VALIDITY CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF UA INTERNATIONAL FARES CHARGE USD 300.00 FOR REISSUE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS - CATEGORY 19 DISCOUNTS APPLY AND REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET- 1. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST BE DOMESTIC 2. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT 3. UA R-NW FARE FAMILY IS USED 4. UA ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED 5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET 6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT OR - REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET- 1. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST BE DOMESTIC 2. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT 3. UA FARES ARE USED 4. UA ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED 5. NEW TKT HAS EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE THAN PREVIOUS TKT 6. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET 7. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT OR - REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET- 1. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST BE DOMESTIC 2. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT 3. ANY CARRIER FARES ARE USED 4. ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED 5. NEW TKT HAS EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE THAN PREVIOUS TKT 6. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET 7. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE IGNORE RESIDUAL THEN ADD-COLLECT ENDORSEMENT BOX - HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
#28
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Code:
/VIA THE PACIFIC/ MAP CONSTRUCTED LEFT TO RIGHT AND RIGHT TO LEFT 1. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-TYO/OSA-UA/NH-TYO/OSA-UA/NH/ KA/HX/CX-HKG-HX/CX-BKK 2. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-GUM-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/ MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/ NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/ OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-SUB/MES/JKT/DPS-GA-BKK 3. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-TYO/OSA-UA/NH-TYO/OSA-VN/UA/ SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG- VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/ SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K- SUB/MES/JKT/DPS-GA-BKK 4. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-GUM-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/ MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/ NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/ OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-PEN/KUL-MH-BKK 5. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-TYO/OSA-UA/NH-TYO/OSA-VN/UA/ SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/SEL/HKG- VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K-TPE/SIN/ SEL/HKG-VN/UA/SQ/PR/OZ/OD/NH/MI/MH/KA/HX/GK/GA/CX/BR/3K- PEN/KUL-MH-BKK 6. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-TYO/OSA-UA/NH-TYO/OSA-UA/NH- BKK 7. DTT-WAS/NYC/EWR/CHI-ORL/LAS/HOU/DEN/CHI/BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN- SJC/SFO/SEA/LAX-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO/HNL-WP/UA/HA-OGG/MKK/LNY/ LIH/KOA/JHM/ITO-WP/UA/HA-HNL-TYO/OSA-UA/NH-TYO/OSA-UA/OZ/ NH-SEL-UA/OZ-BKK .
#29
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Always makes me wonder things like how long has BUF been in that routing template and when if ever did CO offer service from BUF onward to a spoke? Believe today you can't manage BUF-LAS/HOU/DEN online
#30
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