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-   -   Return Flight change question (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1967059-return-flight-change-question.html)

makin'miles Sep 9, 2019 7:46 pm

Thanks - that's helpful.

Booked flights are as follows:

August 13 - TLV-YYZ-YOW (AC81/AC462), Z class (discount business) - this was flown as booked.
April 1 - IAD-LHR (UA122), K class (discount economy)

Fare was sold as follows:

Airfare: 2091.40
Various taxes/fees: 58.91
Total: USD 2150.31

Relevant rules are:

TLV-YOW ZRC1LW (details no longer visible online)
IAD-LHR KKX87NCT (details on changes copied below)



From the Mileage Plus earnings on the original ticket, I can see that 1983 PQDs were assigned to the TLV-YOW flights, while 109 were assigned to IAD-LHR. This tells me that the base fare on the IAD is about USD 109.



When I try to change the ticket on united.com, it brings up an error: "Ticket reconstruction failed for passenger 0. No close matches found for fare AC TLV YOW ZRC1LW NUC 1694.50"


Its been my experience with most network carriers that changes to return flights when the first coupon has already been flown generally results in the change fee being charged, plus the difference in fare on the return segment, with any additional taxes/fees added on. As the return flights I'd like to book have a base fare of USD 900, I expected the change to be USD 791 (USD 900 new base less USD 109 base paid), plus USD 300 change fee, plus any tax changes - so somewhere around USD 1100.


Seems to me that a few things could be going on: 1) the agent was mistaken; 2) the fact that United sold me an Air Canada fare on the outbound that they no longer have a record of is complicating repricing, or 3) only a D fare was available at the initial time of sale (making it the historical fare in effect).


As mentioned above, I don't expect its a reprice on the total ticket including the TLV-YOW outbound - that's not my understanding of how fares work.


KKX87NCT Fare Rules


GENERAL RULES TEXT
NOTE -
--
HALF ROUNDTRIP FARE COMBINATION OF
NON-REFUNDABLE / REFUNDABLE WITH A CANCELLATION
PENALTY / FULLY REFUNDABLE
- THE MOST RESTRICTIVE CANCELLATION PENALTY
RULE APPLIES TO THE ENTIRE PRICING UNIT FOR
WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET -
--
NOTE -
--
NON-REFUNDABLE APPLIES TO ADT/CHD/INF
--
YR / YQ INTERNATIONAL SURCHARGE
WILL NOT BE REFUNDED
--
TAX/CHARGE - US / ZP / XF
WILL NOT BE REFUNDED
NON-REFUNDABLE ON NON-REFUNDABLE FARE TICKETS
--
CANCELLATIONS
ANY TIME
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW/
REFUND.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE.
NOTE -
--
A. EXCHANGE - WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET / CHANGE
TO 1ST TICKETED FLIGHT COUPON
--
FULL VALUE OF A WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET MAY BE
APPLIED TOWARDS PURCHASE OF MOST DOMESTIC AND
INTERNATIONAL FARES/ EXCLUSIONS APPLY / TICKET
PRICED AT -CURRENT- FARE LEVELS UPON PAYMENT
OF ADMINISTRATIVE FEE EQUAL TO CHANGE FEE
CONTAINED WITHIN THIS RULE.
--
RESIDUAL VALUE // IF ANY // WILL BE RETURNED
IN THE FORM OF A NON-REFUNDABLE VOUCHER VALID
FOR TRAVEL ON UNITED AIRLINES.
--
AGENCY TO RETURN RESIDUAL VALUE VIA A
NON-REFUNDABLE MCO/EMD VALID FOR TRAVEL ON
UNITED AIRLINES ONLY.
--
IF APPLICABLE / ANY FARE DIFFERENECE/SURCHARGE/
TAX/FEE/CHARGE / WILL BE COLLECTABLE AT TIME OF
EXCHANGE.
--PROVIDED--
--ORIGINAL RESERVATIONS ARE CANCELLED PRIOR TO
ORIGINALLY SCHEDULE FLIGHT OR TICKET HAS
NO VALUE IF NO SHOW.
--
WHEN PASSENGER CANCELS THE TICKETED
DEPARTURE TIME THE TICKET WILL BE VALID
FOR TRANSPORTATION FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE
OF ISSUANCE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET AND WILL
BE SUBJECT TO ANY AND ALL APPLICABLE CHANGE
FEES. OTHERWISE THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE
AFTER TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME.
--
THE NON-REFUNDABLE CANCELLATION AMOUNT OF THE
TICKET BEING EXCHANGED REMAINS NON-REFUNDABLE
AND CARRIED FORWARD IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF
THE NEW TICKET.
--
RESERVATIONS MUST BE CANCELLED BEFORE ORIGINAL
SCHEDULED FLIGHT OR TICKET HAS NO VALUE
IF NO SHOW.
--
WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET / CHANGE TO 1ST TICKETED
FLIGHT COUPON
--
REPRICE USING CURRENT QUALIFYING FARES
CHARGE ADMINISTRATIVE FEE EQUAL TO CHANGE FEE
--
CHARGE ONLY ONE FEE THE HIGHEST FEE OF ONLY
CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS.
--
1. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM RESISSUE DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
2. UA/LH/AC/LX/OS/SN FARES ARE USED
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE -
--
UA RETURN RESIDUAL VALUE VIA VOUCHER
--
AGENCY RETURN RESIDUAL VALUE VIA NON-REFUNDABLE
MCO / EMD
--
RESIDUAL VALUE MAY NOT BE APPLIED TOWARD FEE.
CHARGE FULL CHANGE FEE
ADD COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE - IF APPLICABLE
--
--
B. BOOKING CODE CHANGE PERMITTED
--
WHEN A FARE IS INTRODUCED INTO THE MARKET
OR A CURRENT FARE IS REDUCED OR BOOKING CODE
BECOMES AVAILABLE / THE TICKETED PASSENGER MAY
QUALIFY FOR ONE OF THE ABOVE OPTIONS.
ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW AIR FARE MUST BE MET
BEFORE DEPARTURE.
NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/DATES/FLIGHTS.
--- ONLY BOOKING CODE CHANGE IS PERMITTED.---
--
AN ADMINISTRATIVE FEE EQUAL TO THE CHANGE FEE
WILL BE ASSESSED.
--
RESIDUAL VALUE /IF ANY / WILL BE RETURNED IN
THE FORM OF A NON-REFUNDABLE VOUCHER VALID FOR
TRAVEL ON UNITED AIRLINES.
--
AGENCY TO ISSUE NON-REFUNDABLE MCO/EMD VALID
FOR TRAVEL ON UA ONLY.
--
ONLY BOOKING CODE CHANGE PERMITTED /
REPRICE USING QUALIFYING CURRENT FARES
--
1. NO CHANGE TO FARE BREAKS/FLIGHTS/DATES
2. UA FARES ARE USED
3. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE -
--
UA RETURN RESIDUAL VALUE VIA VOUCHER
--
AGENCY TO RETURN RESIDUAL VALUE VIA MCO/EMD
--
RESIDUAL VALUE MAY NOT BE APPLIED TOWARD FEE.
CHARGE FULL CHANGE FEE
ADD-COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE - IF APPLICABLE
--
ENDORSEMENT BOX - NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
--
CHANGES
ANY TIME
CHARGE USD 300.00 FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION.
WAIVED FOR SCHEDULE CHANGE.
NOTE -
--
--
CHANGE TO 1ST TICKET FLIGHT COUPON OR USE OF
WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET -
SEE CANCELLATION SECTION
--
--
CHANGE TO OTHER THAN 1ST TKD FLIGHT COUPON
--
TICKETED RESERVATIONS NOT BEING USED ARE
TO BE CANCELLED PRIOR TO ORIGINAL SCHEDULED
FLIGHT. RETURN RESERVATIONS MAYBE SCHEDULED
ANYTIME WITHIN TICKET VALIDITY. TICKET MUST
BE REISSUED AT SAME TIME WHEN VOLUNTARY CHANGE
IS CONFIRMED
--
APPLY CAT19 PROVISIONS FOR INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT /
INFANT WITH A SEAT / CHILD
--
IN THE EVENT OF CHANGES TO TICKETED FLIGHTS
APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
--
ONLY ONE CHANGE FEE / THE HIGHEST CHANGE FEE
IS CHARGED FOR ONLY CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS.
IF THE ONLY FARE COMPONENT BEING CHANGED
DOES NOT HAVE A CHANGE FEE // NO FEE WILL
BE CHARGED.
--
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE
OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF UA INTERNATIONAL FARES
--
CHARGE CHANGE FEE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ONLY CHANGED
FARE COMPONENTS
--
IF CHANGES ARE MADE TO OTHER THAN THE FIRST
TICKETED FLIGHT / THE FARE LEVELS IN EFFECT
AT TIME OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE WILL APPLY
PROVIDED THE NEW ITINERARY QUALIFIES FOR
ALL THE PROVISIONS OF THE ORIGINALLY TICKETED
BOOKING CODE FARE -
IGNORING ADVANCE RESERVATION /TICKETING
REQUIREMENTS.
--
REPRICE USING CURRENTLY TKTD FARE IF RESULTS IN
VALID SOLUTION FOR - KEEP THE FARE
SAME BOOKING CODE / SAME FARE BASIS CODE
--
CHANGE TO OTHER THAN 1ST TKTD FLIGHT COUPON -
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
--
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FLIGHT COUPON/ NO CHANGE TO
FARE BREAKS
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL
MUST BE DOMESTIC
3. UA/AC/LH/LX/OS/SN FARES ARE USED
4. ALL RULE AND SAME BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE
MET IGNORING ADV RES-TKTG
5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
KEEP THE FARE
CHARGE FULL CHANGE FEE
--
--
OR
--
IF THE NEW ITINERARY QUALIFIES FOR THE ORIGINAL
TICKETED BOOKING CODE FARE -
BUT RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE DUE TO
SEASONALITY / DAY OF WEEK TRAVEL / CHANGE TO FARE
BREAK POINT -
--
CHARGE CHANGE FEE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ONLY CHANGED
FARE COMPONENTS
--
RECALCULATION TO LOWER BOOKING CODE IS NOT
PERMITTED.
--
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
// HISTORICAL FARES //
--
WHEN CHANGE TO OTHER THAN 1ST TKTD FLIGHT COUPON
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FLIGHT COUPON / CHANGE TO
FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL
MUST BE DOMESTIC
3. CARRIERS UA/AC/LH/LX/OS/SN FARES ARE USED
4. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE--
--
CHARGE FULL CHANGE FEE
ADD-COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE - IF APPLICABLE
--
--
OR
--
IF CHANGE BY THE PASSENGER NO LONGER QUALIFY
FOR THE ORIGINAL TICKETED BOOKING CODE FARE -
DUE TO BOOKING CODE NOT AVAILABLE OR ORIGINAL
FARE NO LONGER QUALIFIES DUE TO RULE RESTRCTIONS -
FULL VALUE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET MAY BE APPLIED
TOWARDS EQUAL OR HIGHER QUALIFYING FARE
USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE ORIGINAL TICKET
ISSUE DATE
--
RECALCULATION TO LOWER BOOKING CODE IS NOT
PERMITTED.
--
FARE IS RECALCULATED FROM POINT OF ORIGIN /
ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE / TAXES AND CHANGE FEE
CONTAINED WITHIN THIS RULE WILL BE APPLICABLE AT
TIME OF CHANGE / REISSUE. --
--
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
// HISTORICAL FARES //
--
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FLIGHT COUPON / CHANGE TO
FARE BREAK POINT PERMITTED
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL
MUST BE DOMESTIC
3. UA/AC/LH/LX/OS/SN FARES ARE USED
4. NEW TKT HAS - EQUAL OR HIGHER QUALIFYING FARE
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE -
--
CHARGE FULL CHANGE FEE
ADD-COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE - IF APPLICABLE
--

findark Sep 10, 2019 8:41 am


Originally Posted by makin'miles (Post 31508525)
Thanks - that's helpful.

Booked flights are as follows:

August 13 - TLV-YYZ-YOW (AC81/AC462), Z class (discount business) - this was flown as booked.
April 1 - IAD-LHR (UA122), K class (discount economy)

Fare was sold as follows:

Airfare: 2091.40
Various taxes/fees: 58.91
Total: USD 2150.31

Relevant rules are:

TLV-YOW ZRC1LW (details no longer visible online)
IAD-LHR KKX87NCT (details on changes copied below)



From the Mileage Plus earnings on the original ticket, I can see that 1983 PQDs were assigned to the TLV-YOW flights, while 109 were assigned to IAD-LHR. This tells me that the base fare on the IAD is about USD 109.



When I try to change the ticket on united.com, it brings up an error: "Ticket reconstruction failed for passenger 0. No close matches found for fare AC TLV YOW ZRC1LW NUC 1694.50"

Did you type your fare codes or did you copy them from a screen? I'm assuming the latter which exposes a very strange situation... I am having trouble finding your fare. There is no (AC or UA) fare that I can find "ZRC1LW" however there is a "ZRCILW" (letter I not digit 1). However, it is also exactly 100.00 higher and should price as NUC 1794.50. I'm guessing some part of this is causing the computer to give up, and agents will say pretty much anything when the computer is confused. It's possible something moved around as the WAS-LON K fare has changed price quite a bit. What was your ticketing date?

Closest I can get in fare construction is something like

TLV AC X/YTO AC YOW 1794.50ZRCILW /-WAS UA LON 110.50KKX87NCT NUC 1905.00 END

Which is 100 higher on the Z fare but otherwise close-ish and uses 24-Jul-19 as a ticketing date.

Kacee Sep 10, 2019 8:49 am


Originally Posted by makin'miles (Post 31508525)
As mentioned above, I don't expect its a reprice on the total ticket including the TLV-YOW outbound - that's not my understanding of how fares work.

You'll get a reprice when you go outside the original fare rules by, for example, changing destination. That's this part of the rules:

IF CHANGES ARE MADE TO OTHER THAN THE FIRST TICKETED FLIGHT THE FARE LEVELS IN EFFECT AT TIME OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE WILL APPLY PROVIDED THE NEW ITINERARY QUALIFIES FOR ALL THE PROVISIONS OF THE ORIGINALLY TICKETED BOOKING CODE FARE

findark Sep 10, 2019 8:57 am


Originally Posted by Kacee (Post 31510184)
You'll get a reprice when you go outside the original fare rules by, for example, changing destination. That's this part of the rules:

I would expect it to be fine in this case though; ZRCILW combines happily with pretty much anything to Europe.

Kacee Sep 10, 2019 9:06 am


Originally Posted by findark (Post 31510211)
I would expect it to be fine in this case though; ZRCILW combines happily with pretty much anything to Europe.

Perhaps so, but the fact remains the ticket is repricing and that's the root issue here. Once you're in that territory, you're likely to find yourself at the rate desk's mercy. Especially when you started with an unusual fare combination.

FlytheTail Feb 4, 2020 2:44 pm

I need to purchase a one-way ticket to CPH. Not surprisingly, a roundtrip fare is cheaper than a one-way ticket. If I buy the cheaper roundtrip ticket, after I have flown the outbound portion, can I cancel the return and then use its value for a completely different flight in the future (minus the change fee)? Thanks in advance.

findark Feb 4, 2020 2:57 pm


Originally Posted by FlytheTail (Post 32032800)
I need to purchase a one-way ticket to CPH. Not surprisingly, a roundtrip fare is cheaper than a one-way ticket. If I buy the cheaper roundtrip ticket, after I have flown the outbound portion, can I cancel the return and then use its value for a completely different flight in the future (minus the change fee)? Thanks in advance.

No. You can cancel the return and pay the change fee to use the return for a fare component that would be a valid combination with your original half-round-trip outbound, such as any Europe to USA. If the new return is not valid with the original outbound, you run the risk of a retroactive reprice.

lhrsfo Feb 4, 2020 3:47 pm

Often cheaper and certainly easier just to no-show.

fatlasercat Mar 2, 2020 10:23 pm

I am contemplating a ticket change due to the virus and want to know my options before calling. The situation is bit complicated:
Bought EU-USA-EU roundtrip P fare deal in May 2019. Already flown the outbound and return (USA-EU) is in two weeks. Complicating factor is that the ticket was reissued in August, 2019 because of a schedule change that resulted in an impossible connection. Questions:
1) I would like to change the return leg to June 2020. That's past the 1-year mark for the original ticket, but that should be ok given the reissue date of Aug 2020.
2) Ticket rules say fare should be calculated based on historical fare when ticket was originally issued. Is that the original-original or when it was reissued? Since it was involuntary, I think I have a good argument for the original when there was a deal.
3) Can I just get a refund for the return leg given that it was involuntarily changed, even though I accepted it at the time?

emcampbe Mar 3, 2020 4:35 am


Originally Posted by fatlasercat (Post 32135106)
I am contemplating a ticket change due to the virus and want to know my options before calling. The situation is bit complicated:
Bought EU-USA-EU roundtrip P fare deal in May 2019. Already flown the outbound and return (USA-EU) is in two weeks. Complicating factor is that the ticket was reissued in August, 2019 because of a schedule change that resulted in an impossible connection. Questions:
1) I would like to change the return leg to June 2020. That's past the 1-year mark for the original ticket, but that should be ok given the reissue date of Aug 2020.
2) Ticket rules say fare should be calculated based on historical fare when ticket was originally issued. Is that the original-original or when it was reissued? Since it was involuntary, I think I have a good argument for the original when there was a deal.
3) Can I just get a refund for the return leg given that it was involuntarily changed, even though I accepted it at the time?

1) reissue date shouldn’t matter in terms of expiry. Your ticket needs to be used within 1 year of original issue date. Re-issue date doesn’t change that.

if your destination has a waiver (ie, for Coronavirus), there may be some sort of exception they can make, but I think most of those are only going into March and April, at least at the moment, so you may have to wait and see

2) deal or no deal at purchase time on dates available, there was no fare available for sale in May 2019 for travel in June 2020 - typically, I believe they only sell tickets 330 days in advance. Even if they could extend the validity of the ticket, it’s probably pretty difficult to validate a fare for date of travel that wasn’t available on the original date of purchase

3) doubtful for something accepted months ago. If it was later that same day, or maybe a few days later, there might be a chance. Accepted in August 2019, and want to change that in March 2020 is not really worth trying, IMO, If you truly want to cancel based on Coronavirus fears, that may be a better ane than on something you accepted months and months ago.

jsloan Mar 3, 2020 9:16 am


Originally Posted by emcampbe (Post 32135772)
Even if they could extend the validity of the ticket, it’s probably pretty difficult to validate a fare for date of travel that wasn’t available on the original date of purchase

Actually, airlines routinely issue fares that are valid much further into the future than can actually be ticketed. However, sale fares are often more limited.

OP: for a return flight, if the original ticketing conditions still apply (e.g., maximum stay, day-of-week, and season restrictions), in most cases there will be no fare difference if the same booking class is available on your desired flight.


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