Community
Wiki Posts
Search

UA Agent Charged with Disorderly Conduct

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 26, 2019, 10:31 am
  #46  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by fastflyer
Even if the FA did "call" the passenger a monkey, how is this a crime?

I would not want that employee representing my company, but I don't believe it is criminal.
It's the 'fighting words' doctrine. If someone uses fighting words directly to the face of someone, that has been construed as a disturbance of the peace in past cases (because it would be reasonable for the victim to retaliate with force). Thus the 'disorderly conduct' charge.

Dates back to the 40s with the Supreme Court - with nuances since in various court cases that have upheld racial slurs as fighting words. So it's not a recent development - but some folks are more aware of it over time. The key is using them directly at an individual in person. And then having witnesses to back it up.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fighting-words-free-speech

Still not clear to whether the passenger didn't commit trespassing - but that doesn't come into play for the agent's charge.
cerealmarketer is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2019, 10:58 am
  #47  
cur
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: fwp blood diamond, dykwia uranium
Posts: 7,251
Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
Chicago Tribune says the passenger walked onto the tarmac first

"Hughes told police that after her plane arrived in Houston, she walked on the tarmac to see if workers were unloading bags, and Davano yelled at her to return inside the terminal. Hughes said the confrontation occurred after she asked Davano for a supervisor so she could discuss other issues about the flight."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...423-story.html

Puzzled why the UA agent didn't call the police on that before things escalated.
because it was probably a ground loaded flight and there was no reason to freak out and call 911 just because a pax went behind the wing.
cur is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2019, 11:59 am
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,365
Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
It's the 'fighting words' doctrine. If someone uses fighting words directly to the face of someone, that has been construed as a disturbance of the peace in past cases (because it would be reasonable for the victim to retaliate with force). Thus the 'disorderly conduct' charge.

Dates back to the 40s with the Supreme Court - with nuances since in various court cases that have upheld racial slurs as fighting words. So it's not a recent development - but some folks are more aware of it over time. The key is using them directly at an individual in person. And then having witnesses to back it up.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fighting-words-free-speech

Still not clear to whether the passenger didn't commit trespassing - but that doesn't come into play for the agent's charge.
That doctrine really looks like a stretch here.

It has to be language intended to incite violence.

If an airport worker sees a pax walking around on the tarmac where they should not, it would be proper to yell at them "get back here". If instead they yelled "get back here you friggen idiot" it carries the same context. And replacing the ending with any other term, racists or not, does not change the context.

If the pax was walking back, and the agent stepped in their face and said "you are one stupid monkey", now I agree that could fall under the doctrine.

Last edited by exwannabe; Apr 26, 2019 at 12:34 pm
exwannabe is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2019, 12:10 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Palm Beach/ New England
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, DL GM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 4,382
Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
It's the 'fighting words' doctrine. If someone uses fighting words directly to the face of someone, that has been construed as a disturbance of the peace in past cases (because it would be reasonable for the victim to retaliate with force). Thus the 'disorderly conduct' charge.

Dates back to the 40s with the Supreme Court - with nuances since in various court cases that have upheld racial slurs as fighting words. So it's not a recent development - but some folks are more aware of it over time. The key is using them directly at an individual in person. And then having witnesses to back it up.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fighting-words-free-speech

Still not clear to whether the passenger didn't commit trespassing - but that doesn't come into play for the agent's charge.
Interesting. The linked article points to a trendline that hate speech may become protected in future Supreme Court decisions, even when directed as a personal insult to someone, aka "fighting words."

With identity now so politicized, the UA employee might argue that racial hate speech is in fact protected political speech. I doubt this would even get beyond the local courts, but it could be an interesting case. This legal argument would also require concession that "monkey" when directed as a personal insult, would represent speech containing identity hatred. So if the legal argument fails, the gate agent would have admitted guilt to the disorderly conduct charge.
fastflyer is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2019, 12:33 pm
  #50  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Originally Posted by exwannabe
That doctrine really looks like a stretch here.

It has to be language intended to incite violence.

If an airport worker sees a pax walking around on the tarmac where they should not, it would be proper to yell at them "get back here". If instead they yelled "get back here you friggen idiot" it carries the same context. And replacing the ending with any other term, racists or not, does not change the context.

If the pax was walking back, and the agent stepped in their fact and said "you are one stupid monkey", now I agree that could fall under the doctrine.
Sounds like the slurs witnessed were exchanged inside the terminal - after being called in from the tarmac. But there may have also been a podium between the agent and passenger. Does that make a case for no reasonable chance of violence?

I'll leave it to the many attorneys here to provide a professional view.
cerealmarketer is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2019, 12:59 pm
  #51  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,417
Originally Posted by fastflyer
This legal argument would also require concession that "monkey" when directed as a personal insult, would represent speech containing identity hatred. So if the legal argument fails, the gate agent would have admitted guilt to the disorderly conduct charge.
Lawyers have that one covered, so not quite.
findark is online now  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.