Early arrival - gate is occupied
Apr 23, 2019, 12:52 pm
#61
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And there is a dedicated person in Operations at major hubs whose only job is to juggle gates.
Last edited by iflyjetz; Apr 23, 2019 at 1:00 pm
Apr 23, 2019, 12:58 pm
#62
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This.
In nearly every major airport around the world, they make good use of remote stands. During the busiest times, aircraft can park and disembark pax using shuttle buses. This works for domestic and for international arrivals, and it's a smooth and logical solution to the ups and downs of gate demand through the day - it's surge capacity.
But if these US hub airports we're talking about used remote stands like this, then we would hear endless whinging about "why can't XXX airport use more regular gates with jet bridges. I don't want to have to ride a bus."
In nearly every major airport around the world, they make good use of remote stands. During the busiest times, aircraft can park and disembark pax using shuttle buses. This works for domestic and for international arrivals, and it's a smooth and logical solution to the ups and downs of gate demand through the day - it's surge capacity.
But if these US hub airports we're talking about used remote stands like this, then we would hear endless whinging about "why can't XXX airport use more regular gates with jet bridges. I don't want to have to ride a bus."
Apr 23, 2019, 1:02 pm
#63
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I give kudos to the pilots' announcements when they have an estimated early arrival into EWR.
Most of the times when this occurs, they offer something like this: "We expect to land about xx minutes early into Newark, and we hope we will have an open gate available so we can have an early arrival."
Most of the times when this occurs, they offer something like this: "We expect to land about xx minutes early into Newark, and we hope we will have an open gate available so we can have an early arrival."
Apr 23, 2019, 1:26 pm
#64
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Apr 23, 2019, 1:36 pm
#65
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My perennial "favorite" is UA 58, the afternoon (~ 2:00 pm) flight SFO-FRA (formerly UA 900).
Whenever it arrives early into FRA, there is never a gate available. First of all, you get less sleep time
inflight, and then you sit around at the tarmac.........
Enjoyed that process dozens of time.
Whenever it arrives early into FRA, there is never a gate available. First of all, you get less sleep time
inflight, and then you sit around at the tarmac.........
Enjoyed that process dozens of time.
Apr 23, 2019, 2:01 pm
#66
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LAX T7/8 will always suffer due to the single a/c alleys. Even if a gate is available, a/c pushing back from other gates may clog things up a bit.
Apr 23, 2019, 2:10 pm
#67
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Apr 23, 2019, 3:54 pm
#68
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Location: New York, NY
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a major part of the issue is UA (and other airline's) reluctance to change the gate for the next flight. Ie, if your plane is going DTW-EWR and then the physical plane is going EWR-MCO and the EWR-MCO flight is scheduled from C85, if they change the gate coming in from DTW to C72, you need to get word to 200 people to go from C85 to C72. As more passengers get comfortable using the app, move away from paper based boarding passes, etc, those gate changes 'could' get a bit easier
Apr 24, 2019, 6:34 am
#69
Join Date: Feb 2015
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a major part of the issue is UA (and other airline's) reluctance to change the gate for the next flight. Ie, if your plane is going DTW-EWR and then the physical plane is going EWR-MCO and the EWR-MCO flight is scheduled from C85, if they change the gate coming in from DTW to C72, you need to get word to 200 people to go from C85 to C72. As more passengers get comfortable using the app, move away from paper based boarding passes, etc, those gate changes 'could' get a bit easier
Apr 29, 2019, 10:28 am
#70
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW Australia
Posts: 895
DEN this morning arrived 35 minutes early, dispatched to some sort of penalty box adjacent to Concourse C. It was clear for all to see every gate was indeed occupied on the B Concourse. After about 20 minutes we got parked at gate 81
May 8, 2019, 11:20 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
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wish we had more pilot input on why this issue persists
landed at EWR at 11:40pm last night, after a diversion. Waited until 12;20am for a tug to pull us into C-71. Sat in front of C-73 for 40 minutes, which was available the whole time. Kills my idea that the issue was matching inbound frame to the next flight going out, since no one was in the terminal waiting for a plan after midnight.
40 minute wait for a gate after a diversion and ultimately 3.5 hr delay is brutal
landed at EWR at 11:40pm last night, after a diversion. Waited until 12;20am for a tug to pull us into C-71. Sat in front of C-73 for 40 minutes, which was available the whole time. Kills my idea that the issue was matching inbound frame to the next flight going out, since no one was in the terminal waiting for a plan after midnight.
40 minute wait for a gate after a diversion and ultimately 3.5 hr delay is brutal
May 8, 2019, 12:00 pm
#72
Join Date: Aug 2010
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wish we had more pilot input on why this issue persists
landed at EWR at 11:40pm last night, after a diversion. Waited until 12;20am for a tug to pull us into C-71. Sat in front of C-73 for 40 minutes, which was available the whole time. Kills my idea that the issue was matching inbound frame to the next flight going out, since no one was in the terminal waiting for a plan after midnight.
40 minute wait for a gate after a diversion and ultimately 3.5 hr delay is brutal
landed at EWR at 11:40pm last night, after a diversion. Waited until 12;20am for a tug to pull us into C-71. Sat in front of C-73 for 40 minutes, which was available the whole time. Kills my idea that the issue was matching inbound frame to the next flight going out, since no one was in the terminal waiting for a plan after midnight.
40 minute wait for a gate after a diversion and ultimately 3.5 hr delay is brutal
Back in the day I worked on the ramp to help pay for my pilot training. It’s not an easy job and ground staff get very little positive feedback. 99% of the interactions with passengers involved snarky comments insinuating myself or my crew’s laziness and unwillingness to work. Meanwhile we’ve been grinding for hours flipping planes trying to catch up to the schedule. People just don’t see that part.
On the occasions where I have a ground delay I get frustrated too, so I totally get it. I also make a habit to speak with the ramp or crew lead once parked at the gate to see what the delay was, for my own knowledge. Most of the time it is due to a mx aircraft return, last minute gate swap, or some other irregular operation forced upon them which caused a time conflict. The ground crew usually isn’t in the break room watching sports, Jerry Springer, whatever....like we all assume they are!
May 9, 2019, 6:59 am
#73
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 639
thanks--thats helpful. I think the 'on the ground' team gets the bulk of the passenger frustration (and my pilot on wed night conveyed his frustration in every announcement thru the delay). I think the question many of have is why network opps isn't able to manage this kind of thing better--what metrics drive their decisions? what is an 'acceptable' wait vs unacceptable. I've seen some data about passenger willingness to wait before cust sat scores nose dive and UA is getting killed based on these types of issues (plus passengers remember last interaction more than first interaction -- i.e., a gate delay is much more memorable than a booking challenge)
May 19, 2019, 4:47 pm
#74
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Yesterday, we have arrived at ORD, 40-45 minutes ahead of schedule on LO1. When we had arrived, we have taxied about 10-15 minutes and then waited 30-35 mins for a gate in concourse M to open up. The reason was simple, the MU flight that needed to depart at 14:50 (2:50 PM), pushed back at 15:40 (3:40 PM) and because of that we had arrived at our parking position 15 minutes after scheduled arrival time despite arriving that early. Most of the passengers were not-USA based passengers and wasn't used to see a situation like this. And, the immigration lines... I was out of the terminal at 16:30 (4:30 PM), literally 1 hour 45 minutes after we landed.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
May 19, 2019, 4:58 pm
#75
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
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- May 16, PEK-EWR
- Landed 1 hour early
- Had to wait for originally assigned gate to vacate
- That gate's plane went MX, so we waited for gate next to it
- Both gates became available at the same time
Summary: 20 minutes late!
Interestingly, Flightaware has the flight landing 1hr early, and 28 minutes early to gate, which is bogus.