UA Edition: Window shades up? Who controls / decides?
Feb 11, 2019, 8:31 am
#91
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I flew LHR > LAX a couple of months ago on a flight that left London around 3pm, arriving in LA at around 7pm. We also had another flight after this, and we weren't getting home until after 1am. I was on the window and kept the shade open (down?) the entire flight, much to the dismay of the multiple flight attendants, who asked no less than 4 times for me to close it, becoming more and more aggressive and rude each time. The last lady (I use that term very loosely) told me I was a rude and selfish human 
Sorry, but when flying from east to west, I don't want to sleep on the plane and ruin the next day or two. My window seat = my choice.
Sorry, but when flying from east to west, I don't want to sleep on the plane and ruin the next day or two. My window seat = my choice.
Feb 11, 2019, 8:48 am
#92
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Last night, this thread reached #1 on FT's trending threads list. That's pretty spectacular.
Feb 11, 2019, 8:55 am
#93
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There is an excessive amount of personal comments occurring in this thread. "selfish", "rude", ... comments especially applied to other posters are not in the FT spirit or the FT rules. While we can disagree on this situation, there is no need for name-calling. State your opinion, allow others, the same, to state their opinion.
Keep in mind
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Keep in mind
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Feb 11, 2019, 9:07 am
#94
Join Date: Aug 2008
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...
Ultimately, people can do what they wish when they are in control....even when they are severely in the minority.
Just like they can also choose to hold the door open for you or offer you to go next in line and so on.
Guess there are a lot of people here who would not choose to extend courtesy.
Oh well.
Ultimately, people can do what they wish when they are in control....even when they are severely in the minority.
Just like they can also choose to hold the door open for you or offer you to go next in line and so on.
Guess there are a lot of people here who would not choose to extend courtesy.
Oh well.
Some think the window seat person is being selfish for keeping it up while someone else wants to sleep.
Some think the person who wants to sleep is being selfish by expecting the person with the window seat to close the shade.
The person in the window seat can be courteous and close the shade.
The person who wants to sleep can be courteous and put on an eye shade.
In my own experience, when I see that everyone else has closed their window shade, I be courteous and close my window shade too. That seems to be the norm on most flights, at least on UA. But why do I always have to be the one who has to be courteous while no one else has to do anything. I hold the door for people, I let people go in front of me in line and sometimes others do the same for me. I would find it annoying if I always have to let everyone go in front of me. The reason the window shade thing bugs me is I think "Why do I always have to be last in line and then be called selfish?"
Feb 11, 2019, 9:50 am
#95
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Indeed there can be a happy medium, shades can be down during times when most people would reasonably be wanting to sleep (night time/eastbound TATL for example), can be up during day flights, especially if people want to look out, can be halfway down (or halfway dimmed on 787) if it's daytime but the sun is causing glare on a screen, etc.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 11, 2019 at 11:03 am Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
Feb 11, 2019, 9:55 am
#96
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Natural light is healthy, it's better for both mental and physical health. I generally keep my shade about half or a quarter open, so I can see the view and benefit from the light while making an effort to restrict it to my seat as much as possible. If you need complete darkness to sleep, you aren't going to sleep well on a plane whether I close my shade all the way and make myself feel awful or not. It's never going to be completely dark or completely quiet on a flight, if you're a fussy sleeper you're going to have a problem no matter what.
Feb 11, 2019, 10:04 am
#97
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,925
I was a little surprised that the OP wasn't immediately merged into one of the other window shade threads since it was guaranteed to balloon into a long one. The only time I've seen a window shade post directly related to UA was when someone asked if the "window shade always down" thing was specific to UA as he did not see this on other airlines.
Feb 11, 2019, 6:26 pm
#98
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Separate from that issue, many airlines sell flights with true lie flat seats..considering many have paid a lot of money to park themselves in those seats, it's not surprising that many choose to sleep during a significant portion of the flight.
Feb 11, 2019, 7:39 pm
#99
Join Date: Aug 2011
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I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic?
Recently while flying in 1K, the FA came over and asked if I could put up my shades for take off because the man in 1H REALLY wanted it up. OK fine. As soon as we were at cruising altitude I closed it again and he went a bit bonkers. He wanted the FA to force me to either leave my window open or swap seats with him. He kept saying "I am Global Service".
That DYKWIA attitude didn't get him very far -- she didn't even bother to ask me. (I would not have done it anyway)
Recently while flying in 1K, the FA came over and asked if I could put up my shades for take off because the man in 1H REALLY wanted it up. OK fine. As soon as we were at cruising altitude I closed it again and he went a bit bonkers. He wanted the FA to force me to either leave my window open or swap seats with him. He kept saying "I am Global Service".
That DYKWIA attitude didn't get him very far -- she didn't even bother to ask me. (I would not have done it anyway)
Sorry to hear that...
On my most recent TATL flight last month, the dreaded late afternoon LHR-LAX flight the FAs kept the windows dark. I like the window seat as I want the natural light. I kept nodding off which I did not want to do as I try to stay awake to better acclimatize to the local time . Had a dreadful time with jetlag after that trip. I use the sunlight to help my body adjust to the time zone.
On the red eye TATL flights I close the shades as leave at night and arrive in the morning. On the reverse, leave in the daytime and arrive at night I want the window shades open.
The FA controls of the window shades on the 787 annoy me.
Agree with other posters though, you want to control the light in the cabin you choose the window seat.
On the red eye TATL flights I close the shades as leave at night and arrive in the morning. On the reverse, leave in the daytime and arrive at night I want the window shades open.
The FA controls of the window shades on the 787 annoy me.
Agree with other posters though, you want to control the light in the cabin you choose the window seat.
Usually I only keep the shade up for takeoff and approach / landings and other than those times I don't mind closing the windows if others are sleeping.
Feb 11, 2019, 9:22 pm
#100
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Natural light is healthy, it's better for both mental and physical health. I generally keep my shade about half or a quarter open, so I can see the view and benefit from the light while making an effort to restrict it to my seat as much as possible. If you need complete darkness to sleep, you aren't going to sleep well on a plane whether I close my shade all the way and make myself feel awful or not.
Well you'd need a special eyeshade for sure, but it IS do-able. The standard issue eyeshades won't block out 100% of the light, because some leaks in around your nose and sometimes around your temples. But they're good enough that the amount of light coming in no longer prevents sleep.
Feb 11, 2019, 11:42 pm
#101
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As far as take-off and landing, until we have an incident in the US where closed shades slowed down evacuation or someone opened an exit without checking what is outside first due to closed shades, nothing will be done. The foreigner carriers I have been on all require it.
In the event of an emergency, that shade needs to be open so you can see the situation outside...fire? Smoke? During an evac it's important to NOT open the door on the side that is on fire or smoke filled where possible.
And of course, in the event of a crash it helps rescue workers to see inside.
And of course, in the event of a crash it helps rescue workers to see inside.
We've debated the civility of shades up vs. shades down on long flights -- I started one of those earlier threads and it devolved in similar form. We'll never all agree on this one.
But, it's laughable to me that UA flight attendants police seat backs and carry-on bags protruding 5 inches from under seats, but do nothing regarding window shades on takeoff and landing. Recently landed in HKG with less-than-favorable weather; I was in the center section and not a single shade around me was up. I choose window seats whenever I can. I believe the window seat passenger has wide discretion over the shade being up or down. But keeping shades down during takeoff and landing poses a legitimate safety hazard, and diminishes the passengers' situational awareness in the event of an emergency. UA needs to change its policy on this topic.
Feb 12, 2019, 3:43 am
#102
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posts: 318
We might look back at this thread in 5 or 10+ years and have a laugh. I've not read every post, so perhaps this has already been stated: The window debate may not have many years left because windowless planes are possibly coming and are much better in terms of structure, fuel consumption, weight, speed, etc. There's many articles on this. Just Google "future airplanes no windows".
So if this happens, it will end the shade debate. Well, mostly end it. The projections inside will not be nearly as bright as a true view from a window, while the 2-D projection replacement is just not going to be an acceptable substitute for the shades-up people. Hence, the shades-down people might get the last laugh Of course, a VR headset would be a lot better, but that wouldn't provide the powerful effect of casting light on the shades-down people. It's a lose-lose situation for the shades-up crowd.
I'm sure many/most of you have seen the articles about future planes possibly not having any windows at all. Instead, there will be fiber optic cameras that are used to project an image to
So if this happens, it will end the shade debate. Well, mostly end it. The projections inside will not be nearly as bright as a true view from a window, while the 2-D projection replacement is just not going to be an acceptable substitute for the shades-up people. Hence, the shades-down people might get the last laugh
Of course, a VR headset would be a lot better, but that wouldn't provide the powerful effect of casting light on the shades-down people. It's a lose-lose situation for the shades-up crowd. I'm sure many/most of you have seen the articles about future planes possibly not having any windows at all. Instead, there will be fiber optic cameras that are used to project an image to
Feb 12, 2019, 12:39 pm
#103
Join Date: Jan 2019
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TBH I think it's OK for those who've never been on the route and want to see the horizon/landmarks. I personally thoroughly enjoy it myself. I'm one of those guys who would book a window seat even if it meant having to climb over someone to stretch or use the lav.
But if I were on a long-haul, or especially if it were a routine route of mine, of course I'd eventually pull the shades down to catch some Zzz's, and also as consideration of other passengers! People gotta use their best judgement. @:-)
But if I were on a long-haul, or especially if it were a routine route of mine, of course I'd eventually pull the shades down to catch some Zzz's, and also as consideration of other passengers! People gotta use their best judgement. @:-)
Feb 12, 2019, 2:04 pm
#104
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Maybe I have weird eyes or eyelashes but I have never been able to block out all light with an eye shade. Some creeps in no matter what.
Separate from that issue, many airlines sell flights with true lie flat seats..considering many have paid a lot of money to park themselves in those seats, it's not surprising that many choose to sleep during a significant portion of the flight.
Separate from that issue, many airlines sell flights with true lie flat seats..considering many have paid a lot of money to park themselves in those seats, it's not surprising that many choose to sleep during a significant portion of the flight.
Feb 12, 2019, 5:17 pm
#105
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
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Posts: 3,347
My take on it is that if it’s dark outside, it’s not going to get any darker inside by pulling down the shade! I was reminded of this just the other day during an early evening flight from ORD to SFO.
The departure was scheduled for 5:40p, the door closed at 7:06p, the plane was pulled away from the gate at 7:27p, started taxiing at 7:47p, waited at the runway at 8:06p and took off at 8:12p.
None of this was Alaska’s fault. The flight was late from SFO, and as the pilot humorously noted, it impacts the day. On top of it of course, it was cold, windy and snowing in Chicago. The situation was so tight on time and resources that when the cart was rolling down the aisle, the flight attendants regrettably informed the passengers that no coffee was onboard.
Even then did no one complain about open shades. My wife sat by the window, and from my middle seat, I noticed this beautiful darkness out there, occasional cloudiness and at times a few dim lights on the ground.
The young woman on my other side was a real pro. Her smartphone’s screen was dimmed from the get-go, as was the laptop she pulled out later. I could not wish for a more considerate neighbor. I got up at some point, and she knew exactly to move her devices and wires and herself out of way as if she has practiced for this moment for years.
I walked down the aisle from upfront nearby first class to the bathrooms in the back, and some shades were up, some were down, and no one seemed to care. It was a really easy-going crowd, no obnoxious grownup and no baby screaming. The flight attendant found an instant decaf for my wife, who was happy as a clam. Must have been because of the natural light from outside!
The departure was scheduled for 5:40p, the door closed at 7:06p, the plane was pulled away from the gate at 7:27p, started taxiing at 7:47p, waited at the runway at 8:06p and took off at 8:12p.
None of this was Alaska’s fault. The flight was late from SFO, and as the pilot humorously noted, it impacts the day. On top of it of course, it was cold, windy and snowing in Chicago. The situation was so tight on time and resources that when the cart was rolling down the aisle, the flight attendants regrettably informed the passengers that no coffee was onboard.
Even then did no one complain about open shades. My wife sat by the window, and from my middle seat, I noticed this beautiful darkness out there, occasional cloudiness and at times a few dim lights on the ground.
The young woman on my other side was a real pro. Her smartphone’s screen was dimmed from the get-go, as was the laptop she pulled out later. I could not wish for a more considerate neighbor. I got up at some point, and she knew exactly to move her devices and wires and herself out of way as if she has practiced for this moment for years.
I walked down the aisle from upfront nearby first class to the bathrooms in the back, and some shades were up, some were down, and no one seemed to care. It was a really easy-going crowd, no obnoxious grownup and no baby screaming. The flight attendant found an instant decaf for my wife, who was happy as a clam. Must have been because of the natural light from outside!