omghaxcode

I called back and got a US call center and she is booking me on that route. Thanks for the advice... I guess I'll be taking another day off work for this flight though but LH is in meltdown mode so it is what it is.

FlyingShovel

This has happened to me on three separate itineraries over the last two years; am hoping there's a better option than what I've tried so far.

Earlier this year I booked an award ticket from SFO to YFC for a family event at the end of August. Flight was SFO->YYZ on United, YYZ-YFC on AC. As usual, AC changed flight numbers and schedules several times in the intervening months. Most recently they made a change that caused a misconnect (the AC flight leaves 2 hours before the UA one arrives). United just left me a voicemail saying there's a problem with my flight and I need to call in.

The last two times this happened UA told me there were no award seats left on any other flights and my only option was a refund. Looks like that will be the case here also based on some searches I've run. And AC doesn't want to talk to me since it's a UA reservation.

Do I have any recourse other than accepting the refund and trying to book something else at inflated last-minute prices? I'm 1k if it matters.

WineCountryUA

When a partner cancels / reschedules an award flight, things get difficult. Especially if the destination is not served by UA. And More so if a roundtrip

UA is the easy part as you can get UA to open award space. So focus on finding award space in and out of the destination to any location serviced by UA. if you can find that then work with UA to build a trip

If you can not find partner space to / from the destination, look for the nearest alternative airport.

If there is no partner space at all to anywhere close, you are out of luck. UA can not force the partner to open space, when in the past UA might have been able to request the partner to help, that is getting rare to non-existent.

This is the dark side of partner award tickets. and in these case, refunds may become the only option.

jsloan

You should be able to get UA to route you to a nearby airport, if that helps. Of course, for AC-operated flights you'd still need award availability. However, if you wanted to fly to an airport with UA service, they could open award space. UA flies to both PQI and BGR. Of course, that trades your air border crossing for a land crossing, but on the other hand, you avoid the zoo that is YYZ.

sethweinstein

Had an excellent experience fixing a EWR-MXP-WAW-CMB award for this December in which LO canceled the last two flights over a month ago but I just got around to seeking an alternative today. I'd hesitated largely because I was dreading a long hold time, but I got through to a representative immediately using the phone number in the "Please call United Airlines" e-mail. She offered EWR-SFO-SIN-CMB (first two legs on UA, last on SQ); I'd seen the same online but at 300k in business instead of the original 80k. Surprised they let us fly westbound for the original mileage; even got some taxes back! Great service and help in finding a solution.

Seth

maplearrbee

UA lies make baby Jesus cry.

I just spent an hour on the phone with a UA "supervisor", trying to address our Vancouver - Chiang Mai flight (booked on United but codeshare Eva) that was suddenly changed to Vancouver - Bangkok less than 6 weeks out.

Specifically, an hour of arguing that they had an obligation to arrange or cover a BKK-CNX flight no matter what airline it was on, and her claiming that they had no space on partner airlines and our only option was that or a full refund (which no we don't want with other flights and accommodations and time off booked for a month long trip with two toddlers), and she had zero interest in being repeatedly told that the Canadian Transportation Agency and Montreal Convention disagreed. It's like, they don't even admit they're lying when proven they're lying.

jsloan

Huh? UA codeshares on EVA to CNX? I don't see that in the schedule, although I suppose it's possible.

The Montreal Convention?? The word 'cancel' doesn't appear in the Montreal Convention, nor do the words 'rebook' or 'refund'.

As for Transport Canada -- the Air Passenger Protection Act isn't quite as poorly written as EC.261, but it tries. If you really had a codeshare flight, UA might be on the hook to rebook you, but I honestly can't tell; nothing in this regulation defines what constitutes a cancellation (as opposed to a schedule change, or does that even matter for the purposes of the regulation) or whether or not connecting flights outside of Canada are to be included. If you didn't have a codeshare flight (i.e, if the final flight number was BR1234 not UA7234) then maybe UA would have to rebook you? Maybe BR has to rebook you? It's unclear.

Also, as written, you could buy a ticket to an airport that is then closed (e.g., replaced with a new airport, like Stapleton -> Denver International or Kai Tak -> HKIA), and they're required to transport you to the old airport anyway. I reiterate my statement about what a terrible idea it is to have air transportation laws written by people who don't fly commercially.

Anyway, nobody is "lying" to you. They might be right, or they might be wrong, but they're not lying. They're advancing a position that you find distasteful. If they won't budge, I'd probably accept the BKK rebooking, buy a separate ticket to CNX, and then file a complaint with Transport Canada after the fact.

WineCountryUA

Just for background, is this a cash flight or award flight?
What were the flight numbers /flight operator for each segment?

Please cite the specific clause you believe apply, many on this forum are not familiar with CTA in particular.

wenstinator

Hi all,

I booked a partner award roundtrip from IAH to YUL (Montreal) on Air Canada with United points. A few days later, AC had a significant schedule change (outbound early morning flight now in afternoon, evening return flight now first thing in the morning). Given the schedule change, I'd like to change my return flight to the next day (early morning). However, it looks like Air Canada has closed partner award availability at this time, as no more AC flights show up as bookable via United. The United 1K line says I'm SOL and my only option to change flight is to take United, which has connections and doubles the total travel time (no United directs from IAH to YUL). Air Canada says they can't do anything with the reservation because it was booked through United, but they said that with that significant of a schedule change, I should be able to move my return flight to the next day (and there are tons of open seats on that day). Both sides are saying sorry about the schedule change, but they can't do anything.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any suggestions on what I could do? Or am I truly SOL unless I want to fly on United metal with a connection? The flight is scheduled for early November, so I could continue to check AC partner award availability, but I'd I would think I could make the change in advance given the schedule change.

Thanks!

rankourabu

This needs to be dealt with by United.
Your options are
a) rerouting on partner metal where award space is available
b) rerouting on any united metal flights
c) refund

maplearrbee

Award flight booked with UA. Original:

Flight 1 of 2 BR9
Class: Economy (X) Thu, Nov 03, 2022
Fri, Nov 04, 2022 01:50 AM
05:35 AM Vancouver, BC, CA (YVR)
Taipei (TPE) Flight Operated by EVA Airways. Flight 2 of 2 BR257
Class: Economy (X) Fri, Nov 04, 2022
Fri, Nov 04, 2022 07:15 AM
10:30 AM Taipei (TPE)
Chiang Mai, TH (CNX) Flight Operated by EVA Airways.

Now on United site

Depart Thu, Nov 3, 2022 1:50 AM YVR
Arrive Fri, Nov 4, 2022 5:35 AM TPE
Flight Info Flight BR 9
Operated by EVA Airways Duration 12h 45m

2h 10m connection Depart Fri, Nov 4, 2022 7:45 AM TPE
Arrive Fri, Nov 4, 2022 10:40 AM BKK

Flight Info Flight BR 211
Operated by EVA Airways Duration 3h 55m Aircraft Boeing 777-300ER Fare Class Economy (X) Meal Check with operating airline Seats

CTA site (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publicatio...ions-a-guide):

Airlines must always ensure that a passenger whose flight has been disrupted completes their journey – either on the original flight or through alternate travel arrangements. The aim must be to get the passenger to the destination indicated on their original ticket as soon as possible.

The requirement to provide alternate travel arrangements, free of charge, applies when a flight is cancelled and for flight delays of three hours or more. This could be achieved in the following ways:

• The operating airline makes alternate travel arrangements for all affected passengers, with the option for the passenger to refuse the new arrangements; or
• The operating airline offers alternate travel arrangements to each affected passenger and makes those new arrangements for any passenger who accepts.

In either case, the passenger may choose to accept the alternate travel arrangements offered by the airline, or opt not to travel and receive a refund.

If the airline cannot provide a reservation on a flight which departs within nine hours, they must book the passenger, as soon as possible, on a flight operated by any airline. The new flight:

• must take any reasonable route out of the same airport to the passenger's destination indicated on their original ticket. This may mean buying a ticket for the passenger on a competing airline; and,
• must depart within 48 hours of the departure time indicated on the passenger's original ticket.

Yes Montreal just leaves it to vague "damages", but APPR is crystal clear on this:

Alternate arrangements — within carrier's control

17 (1) If paragraph 11(3)(c), (4)(c) or (5)(c) or 12(2)(c), (3)(c) or (4)(c) applies to a carrier, it must provide the following alternate travel arrangements free of charge to ensure that passengers complete their itinerary as soon as feasible:

(a) in the case of a large carrier,

...

(ii) a confirmed reservation for a flight that is operated by any carrier and is travelling on any reasonable air route from the airport at which the passenger is located to the destination that is indicated on the passenger's original ticket and departs within 48 hours of the departure time that is indicated on that original ticket if the carrier cannot provide a confirmed reservation that complies with subparagraph (i), or

WineCountryUA

So this is a BR issue and not a UA issue???

BTW, award flights are not codeshares, but the crux of the regs you quoted apply to the operating carrier and not the ticketing carrier.

maplearrbee

BR metal, UA awards booking. If you choose your friends poorly, then expect to pay for their issues...

WineCountryUA

While you may not like this, BR caused the issue and UA can only offer you what BR offers to UA

This is the dark side to awards. If you can not find an alternative award routing and UA can not get you to destination on their metal, then your only option is a refund. No one was lying to you, the regulations were not written for awards and don't apply well to award bookings. UA is actually more generous than some carriers as it will create award space on its metal to address these partner cancellations.

as stated for another case
Additionally not clear the quoted reqs apply to advance schedule changes vs day of travel irrops
Day of travel obligations are very different than advance schedule changes.

jsloan

OK, so not a codeshare.

(Here's the text)
You're talking about Article 19? That's an extremely tenuous reading. I've never once heard of a claim being made successfully against an airline under this article.

If UA were "the carrier" here, you might potentially have a case -- although I've never heard of any successful cases being argued here.

But UA is not the carrier. You have no UA flights on your itinerary at all. You're trying to hold them liable for something that they have nothing at all to do with.

No, it isn't clear. You may be right, because the language is your typical "I've never flown before" bureaucratic nonsense. (A note to the next government that wants to pass delay legislation -- DM me; I'll help). But it's certainly not "clear," because UA did not cancel a flight, and furthermore they're not even operating a flight on this itinerary.

That's why the word codeshare was important -- if it had been a codeshare flight, then you could make a good-faith argument hat UA had canceled their flight UA7234 or whatever. But since it's not a codeshare flight, I honestly can't see any way in which this is UA's problem. Just because you used MileagePlus miles to buy the ticket doesn't make UA responsible -- that'd be like saying Bank of Canada is responsible because you paid in CAD.

The APPR might apply to BR (who will argue that they can't fix it because it's a United ticket). But, for an award itinerary with no UA flights, United is basically acting as a travel agent. What your'e doing is the equivalent of claiming that Orbitz has to make your ticket good because you bought a ticket fro them and then the airline canceled.

I reiterate my earlier suggestion: either accept the refund as offered, or arrange for travel from BKK to CNX, and then file a claim after the fact (I'd recommend against BR) and see what happens.