How much rest is required for crew?

Old Sep 15, 18, 11:14 pm
  #1  
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How much rest is required for crew?

For HKG flight, inbound (night before was early) was fine for this airplane more than 12 hours before? Just curious if crew needs 1+ days off or more? (I know many of the in- flight staff are HKG based, not sure about pilots though?)


United Flight 862

Status: Your flight was delayed because your original crew did not have sufficient off-duty/rest time required by federal law. Again, we're sorry for the inconvenience. (Arrived Gate 4 Hours 35 Minutes Late)

DEPARTS

ARRIVES

City: Hong Kong (HKG)
Gate: 41
Check-in Terminal:
Scheduled Time: 11:15 a.m.
Scheduled Date: Sat., Sep. 15, 2018
Actual Time: 3:28 p.m.
Actual Date: Sat., Sep. 15, 2018City: San Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
Gate: 95
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Old Sep 15, 18, 11:36 pm
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FAA (or its corresponding international agencies) set the minimum rest time. A union can then further lobby to increase the minimum rest time.

So to your specific question about an early arrival into SFO - my guess is both contracts guaranteed a minimum rest of at least 24 hrs, thus the bid lines are created with a 24-hour rest. If the plane arrives early the FAs will have a longer rest at the price of foregoing whatever pay was not accrued due to the early arrival. I'd hesitantly guess its possible for an FA to voluntarily waive the contractual rest requirements assuming they are not running afoul of regulatory requirements (?) but doubt it would be practical to do so.

....plus the time off in an exotic city is a perk of the job.

The real question you should ask is just how senior are the resort destinations which operate less than daily. Think PPT with 5x weekly service where there are forced 48-hour layovers, with room and board on UA's dime. Such a line must be one of the most senior (if not THE most senior) line in the company!

Last edited by J.Edward; Sep 17, 18 at 1:10 pm
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Old Sep 15, 18, 11:56 pm
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The Federal law (FAA) requires 10h free from duty and at least 8h of opportunity to sleep.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 5:18 am
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Originally Posted by J.Edward View Post
....plus the time off in an exotic city is a perk of the job.

The real question you should ask is just how senior are the resort destinations which operate less than daily. Think PPT with 5x weekly service where there are forced 48-hour layovers, with room and board on UA's dime. Such a line must be one of the most senior (if not THE most senior) line in the company!
From talking with some of the "senior" folks at United, the exotic destination part is a pretty minor consideration. Sure, probably will want to check out PPT once or twice, but usually they are interested in the most efficient trip packages, where they get their required time in while minimizing time away from home.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 5:23 am
  #5  
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Originally Posted by YumYumcake View Post
The Federal law (FAA) requires 10h free from duty and at least 8h of opportunity to sleep.
That is a very basic and incomplete take on the law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.1059
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.1061

Minimum rest can be up to 24 hours in an augmented crew scenario, depending on the length of duty day.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 10:00 am
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thanks !, I guess they did not 24 hours of rest it seems.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 10:06 am
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
The pilot's flight time, duty, and rest requirements are from 14 CFR 117, not 14 CFR 91.

The short answer is that it's complicated. The required rest period will depend on factors that someone on the outside will not be able to know.

Those types of long-haul layovers, however, are generally at least 24 hours.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by Taipei View Post

For HKG flight, inbound (night before was early) was fine for this airplane more than 12 hours before? Just curious if crew needs 1+ days off or more? (I know many of the in- flight staff are HKG based, not sure about pilots though?)


United Flight 862

Status: Your flight was delayed because your original crew did not have sufficient off-duty/rest time required by federal law. Again, we're sorry for the inconvenience. (Arrived Gate 4 Hours 35 Minutes Late)

DEPARTS

ARRIVES

City: Hong Kong (HKG)
Gate: 41
Check-in Terminal:
Scheduled Time: 11:15 a.m.
Scheduled Date: Sat., Sep. 15, 2018
Actual Time: 3:28 p.m.
Actual Date: Sat., Sep. 15, 2018City: San Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
Gate: 95
which inbound flight are you referring to?

crews donít necessarily just turn, especially on ULR flights. Iím not sure how HKG works as a station, but The crew of your flight is not necessarily even coming inbound from your destination, much less off the inbound flight from the night before. As an example, itís possible that a crew rotates ORD-HKG-SFO, as opposed to SFO-HKG-SFO. Iím not saying thatís for sure the routing, but that itís possible.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 12:06 pm
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After one of our flights ORD-HKG, my wife and I talked to the purser while we were waiting for our ride into town. She was based in HKG and she said her next flight back to the US was one week away. We were sorry that we were coming back 10 days later (and would miss her) because she was a great purser and the FAs working under her were very nice and efficient.

On our last flight to PVG, we talked to some of the FAs and they said that they were staying 3 days in PVG and United was putting them in a Marriott. They seemed pretty happy about it.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 12:20 pm
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Originally Posted by LarryJ View Post
The pilot's flight time, duty, and rest requirements are from 14 CFR 117, not 14 CFR 91....
Which is why FAs can do a immediate turn in Hawaii back to West Coast while pilots overnight. Different rules.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 12:23 pm
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Some possibilities:
- The pilot's eight hour sleep opportunity got interrupted requiring the eight hour clock to be reset. A fire alarm going off at a hotel would be sufficient to restart the eight hour clock.
- A crew member got sick at the outstation, requiring crew scheduling to reshuffle crews. There may have been crews there for a two day layover, and in order to shorten it, the eight hour rest opportunity restarts.
- In addition to following the guidelines of part 117 (pilot rest rules), the airline has to develop a fatigue risk management plan which has applicable sections to ultra-long haul flights. There may have been variables not so obvious which happened days earlier requiring a certain duration of rest in order to keep you safe with a safe crew.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 2:29 pm
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I used to fly EWR-HKG J regularly with a 2 day stay (e.g., arriving evening Tuesday, returning Thursday morning). I always seemed to get the same crew on the return flight. It's been a while, and I think the rules changed since then requiring an extra day for the FA's.
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Old Sep 16, 18, 4:26 pm
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Originally Posted by tarheelnj View Post
I used to fly EWR-HKG J regularly with a 2 day stay (e.g., arriving evening Tuesday, returning Thursday morning). I always seemed to get the same crew on the return flight. It's been a while, and I think the rules changed since then requiring an extra day for the FA's.
Layover is 39 hours.
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Old Sep 17, 18, 12:45 pm
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Deadheading crew is the reason

This is most likely related to the typhoon which shut down the city on Sunday.
UA canceled the two whole days of flights--all Fri-Sat/Sat-Sun westbounds and Sun/Mon eastbounds were canceled.
Tuesday departures are all delayed due to crew rest. Normal crew rest is two nights.
That means they evacuated the Thu-Fri westbound crew by deadheading them on Sat eastbounds.
And then deadheading another crew on Sun-Mon westbounds to operate Tue eastbounds.
Even deadheading has rest requirements, and that's the reason for pre- and post-storm delays.
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Old Jan 20, 19, 7:17 am
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For a domestic flight would 15+ hours be considered a normal crew requirement? UA 638 on 01/20.

***UPDATE****

Nevermind! Parts of the original crew was hi-jacked for a different flight.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 22, 19 at 8:01 am Reason: merged update / consecutive posts by same member
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