United's HUB non-stop pricing extremely high
Jan 28, 2018, 12:22 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BA Bronze, United 1K, HH Gold, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 3,477
If you're only interested in one fare, you can find it during the booking process on United.com. If you're interested in browsing an entire fare family, you'll need a paid service such as ExpertFlyer. Briefly, and without knowing your specific location (I'm pretty sure ITH is not an 18-minute flight from ORD 
), what you're seeing just sounds like supply and demand to me. There is likely no P fare filed from your preferred airport to PVG, whereas ORD is a competitive market and UA appears to find a discount (the P fare) necessary to draw business.
Nearly all UA discount international fares are coded to disallow end-on-end construction, which is the fare rule that's preventing you from adding the flight from your preferred airport to ORD and introducing a fare break there. (Having said that: try multi-city search, as some posters have reported that UA's pricing engine will default to a through fare with a round-trip search but will use end-on-end fares with a multi-city search. I've never seen it myself, but it can't hurt to try).
), what you're seeing just sounds like supply and demand to me. There is likely no P fare filed from your preferred airport to PVG, whereas ORD is a competitive market and UA appears to find a discount (the P fare) necessary to draw business.Nearly all UA discount international fares are coded to disallow end-on-end construction, which is the fare rule that's preventing you from adding the flight from your preferred airport to ORD and introducing a fare break there. (Having said that: try multi-city search, as some posters have reported that UA's pricing engine will default to a through fare with a round-trip search but will use end-on-end fares with a multi-city search. I've never seen it myself, but it can't hurt to try).
I did try the multi-city search but, even adding overnight stops both ways, the system knew not to give me a P fare.
Not sure your small city, but let's choose Champaign, IL as an example. If I search fares on expert flyer for CMI-PEK, I find a bunch of fares with varying restrictions (note that *FX fares are generally for Mon-Thu travel and *FW are for Fri-Sun). Notice that it's possible for the most expensive P fare to be more than the least expensive Z 
.
Here's the list up through the cheapest D-fare (btw, prices are without the surcharge, so may appear lower than what you actually get but they are still useful for comparison).
Now, if I look for ORD-PEK, I find the following. You'll see the more general expensive P fares do exist on this route, but there are ALSO a handful of cheaper fares placed due to competition on the route or whatnot:
.Here's the list up through the cheapest D-fare (btw, prices are without the surcharge, so may appear lower than what you actually get but they are still useful for comparison).
Code:
Fare Information Search: Fare Basis Airline Booking Trip Type Fare Cabin Effective Expiration Min/Max Advanced Class Date Date Stay Purchase Req PFXG1NMD UA P Round-Trip 4500.00 (USD) B 10 / 6M 50 PFX7ANMD UA P Round-Trip 4800.00 (USD) B 14 / 6M 07 PFX27NMD UA P Round-Trip 5100.00 (USD) B 07 / 6M 21 PFWG1NMD UA P Round-Trip 5500.00 (USD) B 10 / 6M 50 PFW7ANMD UA P Round-Trip 5800.00 (USD) B 14 / 6M 07 ZFX7ZNMD UA Z Round-Trip 6000.00 (USD) B -- / 6M 07 PFW27NMD UA P Round-Trip 6100.00 (USD) B 07 / 6M 21 ZFX27NMD UA Z Round-Trip 6600.00 (USD) B 07 / 6M 21 ZFW7ZNMD UA Z Round-Trip 7000.00 (USD) B -- / 6M 07 ZFX0ZNMD UA Z Round-Trip 7000.00 (USD) B -- / 6M ZFW27NMD UA Z Round-Trip 7600.00 (USD) B 07 / 6M 21 ZFW0ZNMD UA Z Round-Trip 8000.00 (USD) B -- / 6M DFX0ONMD UA D Round-Trip 8240.00 (USD) B
Now, if I look for ORD-PEK, I find the following. You'll see the more general expensive P fares do exist on this route, but there are ALSO a handful of cheaper fares placed due to competition on the route or whatnot:
Code:
Fare Information Search: Fare Basis Airline Booking Trip Type Fare Cabin Effective Expiration Min/Max Advanced Class Date Date Stay Purchase Req PLX03EM0 UA P Round-Trip 2232.00 (USD) B 08/24/17 12/09/17 03 / 6M 12/25/17 04/30/18 PLW03EM0 UA P Round-Trip 2532.00 (USD) B 08/24/17 12/09/17 03 / 6M 12/25/17 04/30/18 PFJ6ZMM0 UA P Round-Trip 2900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 30 PFK6ZMM0 UA P Round-Trip 3100.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 30 PFS7ZMM0 UA P Round-Trip 3100.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 07 PFXT1UMC UA P Round-Trip 3680.00 (USD) B 10 / 12M PFXG7UMD UA P Round-Trip 4080.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 50 PFX87UMD UA P Round-Trip 4480.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 28 PFJ0ZMM7 UA P Round-Trip 4600.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M PFWT1UMC UA P Round-Trip 4680.00 (USD) B 10 / 12M PFK0ZMM7 UA P Round-Trip 4900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M PFWG7UMD UA P Round-Trip 5080.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 50 PFX47UMD UA P Round-Trip 5280.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 14 ZFJ4ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 5400.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 14 PFW87UMD UA P Round-Trip 5480.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 28 ZFK4ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 5900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 14 ZFS4ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 5900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 14 ZFX73UMD UA Z Round-Trip 6080.00 (USD) B 03 / 12M 07 PFW47UMD UA P Round-Trip 6280.00 (USD) B 07 / 12M 14 ZFJ7ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 6400.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 07 ZFX0ZUMD UA Z Round-Trip 6780.00 (USD) B -- / 12M ZFK7ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 6900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 07 ZFS7ZMM0 UA Z Round-Trip 6900.00 (USD) B 01/01/18 12/31/18 -- / 12M 07 ZFW73UMD UA Z Round-Trip 7080.00 (USD) B 03 / 12M 07 ZFW0ZUMD UA Z Round-Trip 7620.00 (USD) B -- / 12M ZFX0ZUMC UA Z Round-Trip 7880.00 (USD) B -- / 12M DFX0ZUTC UA D Round-Trip 8100.00 (USD) B -- / 12M DFW0ZUTC UA D Round-Trip 8600.00 (USD) B -- / 12M ZFW0ZUMC UA Z Round-Trip 8880.00 (USD) B -- / 12M
For my TPAC or TATL flights, I have to submit a special request for Business Class. Below $4,000, I request it. Above $4,000, I don't waste time filling the form and just book Economy.
Jan 29, 2018, 8:43 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Honolulu / DC
Programs: UA 1K /2mm / Marriott Lifetime Titanium , Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,051
This works for Hawaii as well. WAS-HNL can have Z only at $1600 but routing through YYZ cuts it to $599 P for the cost of a $69 positioning flight....and a bit of time (+winter weather risk).....
Feb 12, 2018, 10:54 pm
#49
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 150
I have a couple of weddings to go to this year and have google flight alerts set up. Gemini seems to keep and hold the fares high while other airlines keep using traditional methods. This is with nonstop LAX-SEA. NB that other airlines are operating mainline here while United is charging double for the United Express Experience. I'd be interested to see others experience in similar situations.
Last edited by claaaaaydavis; Feb 12, 2018 at 11:12 pm
Feb 12, 2018, 11:17 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,418
I have a couple of weddings to go to this year and have google flight alerts set up. Gemini seems to keep and hold the fares high while other airlines keep using traditional methods. This is with nonstop LAX-SEA. NB that other airlines are operating mainline here while United is charging double for the United Express Experience. I'd be interested to see others experience in similar situations.
Feb 12, 2018, 11:33 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United, American, Delta, Hyatt, Hilton, Hertz, Marriott
Posts: 14,802
Good comment. I played the game in the 90s when CO rewarded me for minimizing the CPM. I still have that instinct even though there are times that I’d be prepared to pay a higher price. I agree that from UA’s perspective, tightening inventory is a good move.
Feb 16, 2018, 4:58 pm
#52
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 66
This is probably not the best place but I could not find where to post this. It is sort of relevant to the point of pricing from United hubs. I am looking to buy a business class ticket from LIH-DEN next year in February. Is there a "best" time to buy as in right away when the schedule opens up or not? Thanks.
Feb 16, 2018, 5:02 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
This is probably not the best place but I could not find where to post this. It is sort of relevant to the point of pricing from United hubs. I am looking to buy a business class ticket from LIH-DEN next year in February. Is there a "best" time to buy as in right away when the schedule opens up or not? Thanks.
Feb 19, 2018, 11:42 am
#54
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 283
Looking for SFO-IAH about 3 weeks out. Keeps booking me into a V fare at $700 even though it shows all other fare classes as wide open. What's causing this? I'm booking a round trip that includes staying in IAH for a Saturday night. 2 nights total in IAH.
Feb 19, 2018, 11:46 am
#55
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA 1K; *G, AA Plat
Posts: 1,700
I checked weeks out and even extended for a couple months and it appears that SFO-IAH is just coded for ~600/700 right now for a round trip.
Feb 19, 2018, 12:40 pm
#57
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Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,418
There is a 21-day W fare for a bit less, but that's the cheapest thing published right now.
Mar 3, 2018, 12:14 pm
#59
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I'm coming to the end of what was certainly a fight with Geimini... midcon route to SFO where UA was flying an E75 and would normally have decent fares, but they never released inventory below V. I thought they were crazy and could never sell the plane, but here we are less than a week to go and it's Y8. So I wouldn't be too sure what they're losing.
Mar 3, 2018, 1:05 pm
#60
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
I'm coming to the end of what was certainly a fight with Geimini... midcon route to SFO where UA was flying an E75 and would normally have decent fares, but they never released inventory below V. I thought they were crazy and could never sell the plane, but here we are less than a week to go and it's Y8. So I wouldn't be too sure what they're losing.
Almost any other industry would kill to have the dynamic pricing model adopted by the airlines. Where else can you sell the exact same product to the public for a wide variation on price - in some cases, many multiples?
I’m sure Gemini is a bit of an experiment, but I’m pretty convinced it’ll be a successful one. The data’s all there; they’re just learning how to unlock it.