Darlox

Yeahhhh.... but at least TPAC, they're going to have to be very careful. I can't disagree with your logic either, but given the prevalence of sub-$3k fares from certain markets, and broad availability of slightly-more-than $3k fares from a lot of markets, that's creating a very very tiny needle for them to thread. Maybe I'm privileged and jaded, but it seems to me that the number of business travelers for whom a $700 -> $1400 jump would be permitted, but a $1400 -> $3000 jump would not, for a flight of 10+ hours, is probably a small subset indeed. Or, for that matter, the number of travelers who are shopping for cheap J or PE flights, and don't have any alliance loyalty, that wouldn't then just book on PR or HX or any of the other 2nd-tier carriers where you can fly ok "true" business class for as little as $2200.

If you're correct on your pricing predictions, I think it's going to become a primarily-well-heeled leisure traveler phenomenon. Not to say that business travelers would NEVER book it, if their only option is a major US carrier in Economy. Just that there's an awful lot of alternatives for people who have that kind of money to spend, without firm restrictions on spending even a little bit more...

sbm12

C'mon, now. Pick a position and stick to it.

The example of getting the exit row on OALs and comparing that to UA Y is cute. But not realistic. And Cathay is moving reasonably quickly to 10-abreast Y on the 777s, just like UA.

mduell

One comparison is to E+, the other is to PE, there's no inconsistency there.

mr8

So how many different “classes” and boarding groups is United planning to have on international routes...?

spin88

Mduell beat me to the first point, and is correct, I was saying UA/AA PE > CX/SQ, etc Y > UA E+ (in 3-4-3 on the 777;787). A good Y product is for me - for family trips - workable if the PE price spread is too great. UA's new Y product is NOT tolerable, flying them is like booking AirAsiaX or XL or WOW, it is NOT going to happen in Y.

On the second point, I don't like what CX is doing on the 77W, and I will not fly it. That said, they are now flying the A350-9 HKG-SFO, and it is a very comfortable bird. With them, it will be aircraft specific, like it is with ANA (which has a few 3-4-3 77Ws before going back to 3-3-3 for new deliveries).

dilanesp

You are stacking the deck with exit rows Most flyers don't get exit rows every time they fly.

dilanesp

If I ran an airline, I would try to roll this out first on the routes with the largest spreads between J and Y fares, such as routes to London.

spin88

SQ has 32" pitch. I have flown their Y seat, on the 77W and A380 (upper deck), and I have flown it in both regular and exit rows. Its a perfectly comfortable (and in fact very comfortable on the A380 . ANA/OZ have 34" pitch in Y, and the best economy flight I have ever had was on the upper deck of their A388.

Would I prefer to have a UA or AA (which is using the same seat) PE seat over any of these in Y? Yes, I made that very clear. But there is not some vast difference, its not "orders of magnitude" different. Why? Because I can sleep in any of these Y seats, and my shoulders are not crushed against the person next to me. I would say the same thing about flying on the airbus equipment (340/350/380) on LH, I can manage 12 hours in relative comfort. I've done it, and got off the flight thinking, "that was not bad."

But there are "orders of magnitude" difference between any PE seat and the pick your adjective, cattle car? slave ship? torture tube? seats and restricted space that UA is now offering on its 777s in 3-4-3 with slim-lines and only 4" of recline, even with the 34" pitch E+, and the almost as bad 787s.

You can't just assume that the price difference ought to be the same between UA crappy Y and UA PE and OALs better Y and the PE, the market dynamics will be different due to the "vest difference" between UA Y and PE.

NikoLGA

Technically, there will only be four classes, here are their official names:

Polaris® business class
United Premium Plus®
United Economy Plus®
United Economy®

It’s also important to remember that outside of the US Transcons, the only difference between Econ + and Econ is legroom and recline.

fumje

Should also have 'United Business®?' for (formerly) p.s. / CAN+MEX —?

NikoLGA

Of course, for domestic flights within the US, the premium product is “United First” and on international non-Polaris routes, three cabin domestics, and ps transcons, it’s “United Business”

oskidunker

where can you buy business for $2200.00. Would love to find someone offering that from sfo to lhr.

findark

With patience, you can usually get to Europe for that price point. MAN was $2,050 from SFO last year.

oskidunker

What is MAN?

uastarflyer