findark

Right, so the idea is that the booking engine determines that the cheapest way to fly in Business from EWR to TXL when routing the nonstop outbound is to fly EWR-TXL-FRA-EWR. This is actually done with ZX7RC0E EWR to FRA, which allows a free stopover in TXL. The outbound fare component is about $3,000 including taxes and YQ. The UA website takes roughly half of this and shows it as the price from EWR to TXL (as this is "half the journey"). The "return" is now TXL-FRA, the other half of your outbound fare, plus the second fare component FRA-EWR (which is another almost $3,000). The website combines the second half of EWR-FRA with the full FRA-EWR and shows you the ~$4,300.

If you do anything else on your return segment, it invalidates the outbound. Instead it needs to use D6RC0E, the cheapest actual fare to TXL, which is about $4,345 on a half-round-trip basis. So it would show your other choice as adding ($4,345 - $1,600 [what you already selected] + any actual return fare component).

It's a bit screwy, but what price should it show for EWR-TXL?

Kacee

Inside 7 day Advance Purchase? I'd expect at least seven grand RT.

jsloan

The question is, what price should it show for EWR-TXL when it is pricing it as part of EWR-TXL-FRA-EWR?

My answer is, "not $1600." The best answer is probably "$6000," as it should assume Business on the return and price the entire roundtrip instead of trying to show one-way prices. Since that doesn't seem likely to happen, the next-best answer is probably $3000 -- the entire outbound fare component to FRA -- or $2800 or whatever you would get if you prorated the fare based on distance.

These threads come up every couple of weeks. They rarely came up under the old design -- at worst, you'd get a question about "why is EWR-TXL-EWR thousands of dollars more than EWR-TXL-FRA-EWR?" Sadly, displaying one-way prices instead of round-trips (à la Google Flights, Matrix, etc) is a time-honored deception within the airline industry. I'd argue that this "quarter-round-trip pricing" is particularly deceptive, but it doesn't look like UA is motivated to change it.

Dublin_rfk

It's just UAs normal pricing system. [Make a large spinning pricing mosaic board, blind fold a person, hand them a dart, have them throw a dart. (the spinning board ensures the pricing will always be different and unrepeatable)]
I have good pricing by looking at EWR - DUS and taking the train.

Kacee

What it "should" show is a purely theoretical and irrelevant question, since the website doesn't actually show the true fare for that portion of the itinerary most of the time, despite appearances. And what it actually does show often bears no relation to the actual fare for that segment (or segments).

So the most sensible answer to OP's question is to forget about pricing for EWR-TXL, because that's not the way the fare actually works. In these circumstances, since OP is not looking, for example, to combine a P and W, it only makes sense to discuss pricing in the context of the full roundtrip fare, which as previously stated I would "expect" to be at least $7K within the 7 day window. Maybe this particular fare is a bit less than that, but my expectation generally for US to Germany within the 7 day window would be over $7K.

findark

I think part of it is that they got taken to town domestically by WN. With all one-way pricing, it was completely valid for them to show one-way prices. I know it amounts to the same thing, but I'm impressed at the psychological effect of airfare "feeling cheaper" when you buy two $255 segments instead of one $510 trip. I know I could feel it (despite that being stupid) when they rolled out the new site and switched. I think it's similar to the $x.99 marketing strategy and they felt pressed to adopt it. The segment price is basically correct 99% of the time.

Kacee

It doesn't help that the search results say: "Fares are each-way​, per person, based on a roundtrip purchase . . . ." In these circumstances, that statement is just flat-out wrong.

joelax

I think this is on point based on what you and the others have said. I don't really look at (or, to be honest, know how to look at) whether my direct, roundtrip EWR to [insert destination] flight is being priced as if it were a multi-stop flight. But if that's how this particular EWR-TXL flight is being priced, and that's resulting in an unusually high price in my opinion, then I guess it's time for me to look into booking with an A* partner that is not yet in price-gouging mode.

Kacee

You will find that all members of the *A TATL joint venture (UA, AC, LH, LX, OS) offer the same fares to Europe. And the main competition (OneWorld and SkyTeam carriers) are usually in the same range. You might find a cheaper close in J ticket on TK, though that's a bit inconvenient for flying to Germany. TP, LO, or SK also may offer cheaper fares. google flights is the best tool for finding these. You may also get a discount through the IAPA if you have AMEX Platinum card.

The basic issue you're running into is that the airlines assume anyone buying within 7 days of travel is a business traveler and thus price insensitive.

joelax

Thanks for pointing out the IAP, Kacee. I hadn't heard about the changes to the program (i.e., discounted fares vs generally useless 2-for-1 deals). I'm going to give them a call.

Edit: I don't mean to derail the thread. But I called AMEX IAP, and they were quoting me a price ~$2K more expensive than the prices on AMEX travel's website for the same itinerary. Conclusion: I'm cursed.

cfischer

make sure you check consolidator fares at the same time. Right now there are a lot of $5k fares to Europe which you can get for $2.1k ... Amex IAP may give you a 10% discount (they don't discount YQ).

dso

I have a bit of s side-question to this. I understand SNS and R/T requirements....

But I am looking at R/T fares to Europe in business in October - and I get great one-way business at around $2400 (give or take) when it's at least one week (i.e. leaving Wed, returning Wed. Or any other day). However, if I just take ONE day off that - regardless on what end - the prices in business go to near $4,800 (Y seems to stay the same. Why is that? Is that 'normal' or just a glitch or too far out?
I am, in all cases, staying over the weekend (SNS), but unless it 7 days+, fares are more than double to MUC, FRA (all on UA Metal), TXL and others; while this does NOT happen to CDG, AMS or LHR... It looks like 7 days+ I get P class, while 6 days is Z. That's even though it shows Z9 AND P9 in both cases...

WineCountryUA

7-day min stays are not uncommon fare rule requirements, another requirement to weed out the business traveler looking for a work week trip vs the leisure travelers staying for a full week or more.

dso

Thanks.
The thing is, when I do the same thing in, say, August, or July, I get P fares just fine, with less than 7 days. Once I hit September (and later), nil UNLESS it's 7 days +.....
I was thinking it may just be too far out for these destinations...

Polytonic

It's still absurd that something like LAX-LHR is $2400+ in E- on a hypothetical Sunday to Saturday itinerary when NZ1/2 same itinerary goes for $700ish.