So How Long Before United Follows Delta With Recliner Domestic FC To Europe
#46
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Delta Removing Business Class on Three Routes in Europe:
By Julian Mark Kheel. November 19th, 2017
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/del...-class-europe/
Well, now we know where Delta is getting those 757-200s. At roughly the same time the airline is adding Delta One service domestically, it will pull its premium cabin from the following three routes between the US and Europe:
So rather than sell these seats as business class, Delta is instead selling them as “Premium Select”:
My question based on the article show above:
With new PE offerings, is United going to do the same and replace traditional Business Class on shorter international routes? I am thinking it could be a possibly in Northern South America, the Caribbean, Latin America, and even the Micronesia flights?
By Julian Mark Kheel. November 19th, 2017
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/del...-class-europe/
Well, now we know where Delta is getting those 757-200s. At roughly the same time the airline is adding Delta One service domestically, it will pull its premium cabin from the following three routes between the US and Europe:
- New York (JFK) and Reykjavik, Iceland (KEF)
- New York (JFK) and Shannon, Ireland (SNN) — seasonal from May 3 to October 1
- New York (JFK) and Ponta Delgada, Portugal (PDL) — seasonal from May 24 to September 2
So rather than sell these seats as business class, Delta is instead selling them as “Premium Select”:
My question based on the article show above:
With new PE offerings, is United going to do the same and replace traditional Business Class on shorter international routes? I am thinking it could be a possibly in Northern South America, the Caribbean, Latin America, and even the Micronesia flights?
Last edited by gkbiiii; Jan 21, 2018 at 8:19 pm Reason: merged into exisiting thread
#48
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my EWR-DEN flight tonight. The comfy lieflat 1B I had on a 752 is now a recliner on a 753. First one I’ve caught from EWR in a while. Bummer - was looking forward to a nap.
Looks like it’s running a rotation EWR-DEN-MCO-EWR-DEN. Unusual to see it in MCO as well.
#49
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I saw this comment this morninf, and then checked
my EWR-DEN flight tonight. The comfy lieflat 1B I had on a 752 is now a recliner on a 753. First one I’ve caught from EWR in a while. Bummer - was looking forward to a nap.
Looks like it’s running a rotation EWR-DEN-MCO-EWR-DEN. Unusual to see it in MCO as well.
Point being - it's not *super* rare to see a 753 making it to MCO from my recollection. Whether any of them start making the longer treks EWR/IAD-Europe is anyone's guess.
*edit* I've also watched a couple come into and out of DCA from their slot-limited routes (mainly DEN), I presume for capacity.
#50
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I'm not sure I'd call it unusual, I've seen various 752s and a few 753s into MCO - but they usually come on a routing from the west coast/hawaii routes (ex: N57863 which recently went SFO-DEN-LAX-ORD and now is doing an overnight ORD-MCO run (coming back this morning). I'm wondering if there's some maintenance reason that they keep sending the 753's all the way to MCO from the west? It'd make more sense to me (assuming they have the availability, which i would presume they would) to take a 772 domestic or a 763/4 from EWR-ORD-MCO-ORD-EWR on the busy days.
Point being - it's not *super* rare to see a 753 making it to MCO from my recollection. Whether any of them start making the longer treks EWR/IAD-Europe is anyone's guess.
*edit* I've also watched a couple come into and out of DCA from their slot-limited routes (mainly DEN), I presume for capacity.
Point being - it's not *super* rare to see a 753 making it to MCO from my recollection. Whether any of them start making the longer treks EWR/IAD-Europe is anyone's guess.
*edit* I've also watched a couple come into and out of DCA from their slot-limited routes (mainly DEN), I presume for capacity.
So not sure what the current rotation is all about, just mildly unusual to see it. Anyway, back to the original point... wonder if there's any long-term plans to add some lie flats to these 753's and add them to the domestic "premium transcon" fleet? But they serve a bit of a unique mission; about the same seat capacity as a 788 at almost half the empty weight. So where you need the lift but not the distance of a 788 (i.e. transcon)... it's a very economical bird. I thought I had read somewhere that it had one of United's lowest overall CASM. I can only imagine, however, that thing is a nightmare for the inflight crew...
#51
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As I recall, MCO is/was a pmCO maintenance base for the 757's... Assuming that means both variants. If they were RON'ing the birds overnight at MCO, that'd make sense. But in my case (ship 3858 it looks like) is going to do a quick turn today through MCO - sched arrive 1:47p, depart 2:50p. That's quick for a 750 row narrow body. (Or, it feels like 750 rows anyway...). And certainly no time for maintenance...
So not sure what the current rotation is all about, just mildly unusual to see it. Anyway, back to the original point... wonder if there's any long-term plans to add some lie flats to these 753's and add them to the domestic "premium transcon" fleet? But they serve a bit of a unique mission; about the same seat capacity as a 788 at almost half the empty weight. So where you need the lift but not the distance of a 788 (i.e. transcon)... it's a very economical bird. I thought I had read somewhere that it had one of United's lowest overall CASM. I can only imagine, however, that thing is a nightmare for the inflight crew...
So not sure what the current rotation is all about, just mildly unusual to see it. Anyway, back to the original point... wonder if there's any long-term plans to add some lie flats to these 753's and add them to the domestic "premium transcon" fleet? But they serve a bit of a unique mission; about the same seat capacity as a 788 at almost half the empty weight. So where you need the lift but not the distance of a 788 (i.e. transcon)... it's a very economical bird. I thought I had read somewhere that it had one of United's lowest overall CASM. I can only imagine, however, that thing is a nightmare for the inflight crew...
That's kinda what I'm getting at is instead of pulling intl 752s for domestic premium, why would they not just retrofit their 753s? Others are right that the 752s are better set for international travel anyway (due to range and other requirements) and so it would make more sense for their very out of place 753s (they're the widebody that's not a widebody) to be relegated to domestic premium transcon - it'd decrease their capacity, making boarding faster, but still be able to operate fine out of many (but not all) narrowbody gates. Considering how many 753s they have, and the fact they already fly them on DCA-DEN sometimes, it would be interesting (but likely a pipe dream) to see them retrofit some as p.s. and fly them on their once daily DCA-DEN and once daily DCA-SFO. If they did this, and were able to get another slot exemption from someone for DCA-LAX, they'd basically own transcons out of DC. They could do that now from IAD, but that won't be feasible until the silver line is fully completed, and even then I'm not sure people will take a 30+ minute metro ride just to take PS flights. /shrug
#52
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Maybe an added capacity? It's going DEN-MCO-EWR-DEN then overnighting in DEN and doing the same thing. Your guess is as good as mine there.
That's kinda what I'm getting at is instead of pulling intl 752s for domestic premium, why would they not just retrofit their 753s? Others are right that the 752s are better set for international travel anyway (due to range and other requirements) and so it would make more sense for their very out of place 753s (they're the widebody that's not a widebody) to be relegated to domestic premium transcon - it'd decrease their capacity, making boarding faster, but still be able to operate fine out of many (but not all) narrowbody gates. Considering how many 753s they have, and the fact they already fly them on DCA-DEN sometimes, it would be interesting (but likely a pipe dream) to see them retrofit some as p.s. and fly them on their once daily DCA-DEN and once daily DCA-SFO. If they did this, and were able to get another slot exemption from someone for DCA-LAX, they'd basically own transcons out of DC. They could do that now from IAD, but that won't be feasible until the silver line is fully completed, and even then I'm not sure people will take a 30+ minute metro ride just to take PS flights. /shrug
That's kinda what I'm getting at is instead of pulling intl 752s for domestic premium, why would they not just retrofit their 753s? Others are right that the 752s are better set for international travel anyway (due to range and other requirements) and so it would make more sense for their very out of place 753s (they're the widebody that's not a widebody) to be relegated to domestic premium transcon - it'd decrease their capacity, making boarding faster, but still be able to operate fine out of many (but not all) narrowbody gates. Considering how many 753s they have, and the fact they already fly them on DCA-DEN sometimes, it would be interesting (but likely a pipe dream) to see them retrofit some as p.s. and fly them on their once daily DCA-DEN and once daily DCA-SFO. If they did this, and were able to get another slot exemption from someone for DCA-LAX, they'd basically own transcons out of DC. They could do that now from IAD, but that won't be feasible until the silver line is fully completed, and even then I'm not sure people will take a 30+ minute metro ride just to take PS flights. /shrug
I’ve been the guy saying I wish we had the pmCO late model 762’s back as transcon birds, but that ship has sailed.
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Last edited by chermorg; Jan 22, 2018 at 5:15 pm
#54
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I can't say for sure but they were flying 762s on a daily ORD-IAH-ORD run back last spring. And after I had a long thing typed up I can't find any record of them being in use anymore at all. From my research all of the now UA 762s have been retired completely.
That being said... considering I flew a RT on one of them last May... did you really want that seat and IFE system on a transcon flight in E-/+? To tie this back into the thread topic, those birds would've needed an update for either transcon p.s. or for int'l econ and premium plus - it wasn't good for *either* of them.
That being said... considering I flew a RT on one of them last May... did you really want that seat and IFE system on a transcon flight in E-/+? To tie this back into the thread topic, those birds would've needed an update for either transcon p.s. or for int'l econ and premium plus - it wasn't good for *either* of them.
a comfort perspective. You’re likely thinking of the 763’s before retrofit.
edit: I just looked. Last CO762 left fleet in May of 2013.
#55
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I saw this comment this morninf, and then checked
my EWR-DEN flight tonight. The comfy lieflat 1B I had on a 752 is now a recliner on a 753. First one I’ve caught from EWR in a while. Bummer - was looking forward to a nap.
Looks like it’s running a rotation EWR-DEN-MCO-EWR-DEN. Unusual to see it in MCO as well.
As an aside, I noticed that UA has cut capacity on EWR-DEN quite a bit this winter. Last year the morning EWR-DEN and evening DEN-EWR (314) were 77H, now 738/9, and there's no eastbound redeye except for holiday periods. There are a few more 752s in the mix, but I would guess in the ballpark of 250 fewer seats per day than last year.
#56
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The 77H used to route HNL-DEN-EWR-SJU and back when UA needed the 777 in SJU for the cargo contract it had. With most of the pharma in Puerto Rico still offline (that's what drove the cargo) not too surprising UA is reallocating the plane.
#57
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Though UA continues to offer containerized freight capability to SJU with a 764 on the EWR flight. I suspect cargo in/out of SJU might be of a different nature these days, and perhaps more southbound-oriented.