Availability changes based on connection? GPU across seperate tickets help!
I am flying from Chicago to Tel Aviv. I want to fly Polaris on the 777-300ER, and have a GPU from a GS (I can clear into R or PN). The logical routing of ORD-EWR-TLV does not have upgrade availability, and Premier Desk says waitlisting to TLV is usually no dice. So I looked elsewhere. I found that they have Polaris operating from SFO-FRA and there is PN9 and R9! Crazy! I have several issues with obtaining this flight however:
1. I cannot book from ORD-SFO-FRA-TLV, the fare immediately books into Y, no discounted fares. Is there a way to fly from Chicago, keeping the connection in SFO, but be able to get a discounted fare. Premier Desk says it is not possible because SFO is not in the routing from ORD to TLV. Is there any way to change connection cities... etc... to change this? I assume no. Since I am flying from ORD regardless, I'd rather take advantage of the GPU if it could upgrade the domestic segment as well, but it would have to be on the same ticket. 2. Again, I assume this is a no. But since the pricing does not like me connecting in SFO and makes me book into full fare, if I instead book separate from SFO and also book separately the connection from ORD, is there a chance they would somehow be able to apply the GPU all the way thru even though they are on separate tickets? 3. I have been playing around with different origin cities in the routing that would include SFO on a discounted fare (all West Coast cities + PHX, LAS etc). When I look at SFO-FRA direct, it will show P9 PN9 R9 RN9. When I look at LAX-SFO-FRA, it will show P9 PN9 R0 RN0 on the SFO-FRA segment. Again, same date/same flight as the direct search. Even better, when I search PHX-SFO-FRA, it comes up as P0 PN0 R0 RN0. Why is this happening. It is the same date/flight, but based on the origin, the upgrade availability completely changes. Is this by design, or an error? TL;DR: I have no idea what I'm doing. Help! |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29012189)
1. I cannot book from ORD-SFO-FRA-TLV, the fare immediately books into Y, no discounted fares. Is there a way to fly from Chicago, keeping the connection in SFO, but be able to get a discounted fare. Premier Desk says it is not possible because SFO is not in the routing from ORD to TLV. Is there any way to change connection cities... etc... to change this? I assume no. Since I am flying from ORD regardless, I'd rather take advantage of the GPU if it could upgrade the domestic segment as well, but it would have to be on the same ticket.
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29012189)
2. Again, I assume this is a no. But since the pricing does not like me connecting in SFO and makes me book into full fare, if I instead book separate from SFO and also book separately the connection from ORD, is there a chance they would somehow be able to apply the GPU all the way thru even though they are on separate tickets?
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29012189)
3. I have been playing around with different origin cities in the routing that would include SFO on a discounted fare (all West Coast cities + PHX, LAS etc).
When I look at SFO-FRA direct, it will show P9 PN9 R9 RN9. When I look at LAX-SFO-FRA, it will show P9 PN9 R0 RN0 on the SFO-FRA segment. Again, same date/same flight as the direct search. Even better, when I search PHX-SFO-FRA, it comes up as P0 PN0 R0 RN0. Why is this happening. It is the same date/flight, but based on the origin, the upgrade availability completely changes. Is this by design, or an error? |
Originally Posted by findark
(Post 29012220)
No. You can't route ORD-SFO-*-TLV as it's not permitted by the routing rules. You also cannot combine a discount SFO-TLV fare with a domestic fare. While possible, I doubt this would change for a different fare break point on the West Coast.
OP: The routing rules for ORD-TLV are actually pretty flexible, but they don't let you go very far west of Chicago. You can route through BOS, DTW, ATL, PHL, IAD, IAH, EWR, JFK (requires a change of airport), YYZ, or YUL. You can also fly through just about any major European city. Why does that matter? It gives you two ways to use a GPU. 1 - look for PN space on a UA flight to Europe. 2. Check for business class award availability from any of those gateway cities to FRA on Lufthansa (LH). The GPU can be used on Lufthansa flights, and open business class award inventory is an excellent indicator that it would clear immediately. Note: if you use the GPU on Lufthansa, it's only good for the one segment -- it won't extend to any UA positioning flights, or to the FRA-TLV flight on LH. In either of these cases, you'd be connecting twice, but you'd also get the long leg in business. (BTW, there's no need to look for R inventory when applying a GS GPU. PN >= R, so you can just look for PN). Finally, just in case: did you try searching EWR-TLV for PN space? (Not ORD-TLV?) In the unlikely event that they opened PN on EWR-TLV, it might still not show on a search from ORD-TLV, as you've found. |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29012189)
.... But since the pricing does not like me connecting in SFO and makes me book into full fare, if I instead book separate from SFO and also book separately the connection from ORD, is there a chance they would somehow be able to apply the GPU all the way thru even though they are on separate tickets? ....
As for the R availability varying based on routing, see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...h-flights.html Also, you may run into https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...book-into.html as you try to piece together segments. |
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things, and the answers thus far are accurate, so I'll just add my 2 cents on the routing. I've flown SFO-FRA quite a bunch, and also fly SFO-ORD very often.
Since they would need to be a separate res, give yourself plenty of time for the SFO connection (I would say min 2 hours). Once booked, you can call in and have UA put a note in the PNR's to "link" the reservations. This is just a fall back measure in case of some issue. You won't likely be able to use the Polaris lounge in ORD since you won't be on the Polaris ticket yet. SFO polaris lounge isn't done yet, and the old UA first lounge in intl is a bit crowded these days. SFO is a fine airport to kill time though. Also give yourself plenty of time in FRA. I've had so many issues where I had to run through that airport my min connection time there is 3 hours these days. The Senator lounge is a fine place to relax, freshen up, and pass time. It sounds like a lot more flying to get the upgrade to clear, but if that's the only way for the R fare it's not that bad. Plus you've have a nice ride over to FRA. Just some thoughts. Safe travels! |
Originally Posted by rattydukes
(Post 29027156)
You won't likely be able to use the Polaris lounge in ORD since you won't be on the Polaris ticket yet. SFO polaris lounge isn't done yet, and the old UA first lounge in intl is a bit crowded these days. SFO is a fine airport to kill time though. Also give yourself plenty of time in FRA. I've had so many issues where I had to run through that airport my min connection time there is 3 hours these days. The Senator lounge is a fine place to relax, freshen up, and pass time. |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29012189)
and Premier Desk says waitlisting to TLV is usually no dice.
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Originally Posted by docbert
(Post 29027409)
What day of the week? I'm 3/3 myself on that route this year (EWR-TLV or TLV-EWR), and 3/4 on sponsoring co-workers - with all of them being waitlisted before clearing. Which day of the week you're flying makes a big difference.
Also, can you provide details on upgrade clearance i.e. time of upgrade, booking class, status of traveler (when co-sponsoring) etc. |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29042877)
Flexible. What day do you recommend? Also, which flight? 85 (earlier in the evening around 4) or 90 (11pm departure)
Also, can you provide details on upgrade clearance i.e. time of upgrade, booking class, status of traveler (when co-sponsoring) etc. Also, TUE/WED have been pretty good. The 2300 departure is an easier UG. Good Luck! |
I don't believe the 777-300ER is used for both flights from EWR-TLV. I think it depends on the day. I also think you have a good chance of upgrading. As noted above, there are certain days that are better than others. Shabbat and middle of the week.
Harder on the 777-200, I think because, I believe, there are less seats up front. Plus, the Polaris on that is not Polaris. Same with SFO to TLV. Also, if you fly SFO to FRA then I think Lufthansa uses the Airbus for FRA-TLV and, if I recall, it is not lie flat. And I think it is about a 4 hour flight. Seems like going through SFO would add a lot of time and much (or all) of that extra time in a non-lie flat. |
Originally Posted by daisyatl
(Post 29044508)
I don't believe the 777-300ER is used for both flights from EWR-TLV.
Originally Posted by zombietooth
(Post 29043742)
IME, one of the best days to fly is on Shabbat
Good Luck! |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29046130)
Did you guys clear in advance or at check in?
OP, when you are searching in "Expert" mode, try to make sure there is a lot of Z/P/PN space if R=0. This will increase your chances of the UG coming through. |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29046130)
Did you guys clear in advance or at check in?
Re: your original inquiry about ORD-SFO-FRA-TLV, you may want to try using google flights to search ORD-SFO + SFO-TLV with dates lined up. For some reason they may in some cases be able to combine separate fares into a single ticket. |
Originally Posted by zombietooth
(Post 29048736)
OP, when you are searching in "Expert" mode, try to make sure there is a lot of Z/P/PN space if R=0. This will increase your chances of the UG coming through.
Sorry for long laundry list of questions this is just my train of thought :). Thanks in for all of your insight! |
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29050501)
It is for next Thursday(11/23/2017), and all fare classes, with the exception of G and N, show 9.
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29050501)
should I just book ORD-SFO-FRA-TLV in your guys' opinion.
The situation is the same on the return, but it's less of a problem because SFO-ORD runs frequently. If you miss one, there's a good chance they'd put you on the next one.
Originally Posted by NoDestinations
(Post 29050501)
Is E+ on Dreamliner for 15hr tolerable?
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