United Airlines apologizes after giving away toddler's seat
#166
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
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This is my opinion mind you, but I don't believe it was a "no-show." She said they scanned both boarding passes correctly. UAL is claiming there was a mistake there in scanning them, but I honestly believe it has nothing to do with the scanning of the BPs. That's their claim, but I wholeheartedly believe they scanned them properly. It was what was done afterwards that was the issue. They didn't look further into his age, or that he should be in his own seat, and not a lap child.
This woman flew back to HNL with her son, so her reservation was not cancelled.
There is some muddled reporting (which I highlighted above) on her complaining when she landed in BOS and being told there was nothing UA would do, and would cancel her return if she wanted any refund on her kids (stolen by United) ticket. It is possible that it had been cancelled and was reinstated, in which case there would be a paper trail. So either it was scanned (most likely, UA is lying, basically par for the course) or the agent who she complained to reinstated it w/o saying. Given how UA agents work, I find it hard to believe if it was cancelled, that would not have been the first thing out of the agent's mouth "well your son's ticket was not scanned so he was a no show, and his reservation was cancelled as a no show, let me see what I can do." Given that this detail was not reported, I think it is most likely that the ticket was scanned (otherwise the head count, which includes lap children would have been off) and United's PR staff is once again lying.
#167
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
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Someone mentioned later on that UA no longer does head counts and the numbers are done through the scanner. So the FA didn't break any procedures.
#168
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
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Posts: 3,236
It's just one of any number of possible reasons the GA was handed two BP's and may have only scanned one. That scenario is based on my own observation of individual passengers handing two boarding passes (or in the case of an international flight a passport containing two boarding passes) to the GA. How many times have we seen a large party (grandparents, parents, kids) where the GA is handed a fistful of BP's and struggles to get them all scanned while several of that group start heading down the jetway?
#169
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Lifetime Plat, AA EXP, SPG platinum, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 145
flying with family and have four tickets for four passengers, including my 18 month year old. We boarded first, but near the end of boarding a passenger came on with a seat assignment for my 18month year old's seat.
Boarding passenger was stand-by (I asked her) and I told her the seat was already taken. FA came by and asked if that was a lap child, and I said no he isn't, GA came on too and I had to show my boarding passes. GA stated that the computer must not have scanned the one boarding pass and then left me and my family alone.
i had noticed the FA looking for empty seats earlier in boarding as well. On my return flight today, they then again asked if my son was a lap child or not during boarding. I also overhead the FA ask a young family the same question a few rows back too. It is almost like they don't even look at the manifest. My children even have MP FF accounts too.
Boarding passenger was stand-by (I asked her) and I told her the seat was already taken. FA came by and asked if that was a lap child, and I said no he isn't, GA came on too and I had to show my boarding passes. GA stated that the computer must not have scanned the one boarding pass and then left me and my family alone.
i had noticed the FA looking for empty seats earlier in boarding as well. On my return flight today, they then again asked if my son was a lap child or not during boarding. I also overhead the FA ask a young family the same question a few rows back too. It is almost like they don't even look at the manifest. My children even have MP FF accounts too.
The seeming common-ness of these incidents (families with young children who have their own tickets being asked by UA GAs to see if they're "lap children" to potentially open up a saleable seat--the above example is from a 1K) while the GAs have the relevant information on the manifest makes me wonder if there might be incentives in place for UA GAs to maximize saleable seats.
If so, it may be a policy that UA management needs to reexamine to reduce unintended consequences.
#170
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
Here's what happens in 99% of duplicate seat assignment situations. "Excuse me you sit in my seat, here is my BP?" "Well, here is my BP for the same seat." "Oh, let's talk to a crew member about this." *people talk to crew member* *Crew member makes determination what happens next*
There is zero evidence this conversation ever truly took place. I have yet to see the person concerned clarify what exactly she said to the FA or an explanation why she simply let the other person sit in the seat her child was occupying.
The FA clearly was in a hurry and not fully aware of the situation. It's easy to simply switch to a likely and convenient explanation when distracted and in a hurry: "Oh there's a child sitting in his mother's lap, must be a lap child then" and may not even have checked her seat plan at that point.
Given the back and forth you often get with seats due to upgrades, no-shows, standbys, people switching seats 'unofficially' without asking, I bet it's far from uncommon on any airline - especially in short-haul with minimal turnarounds - that FAs aren't always 100% aware of whether the seating they see in front of them in the plane matches the manifest and instead have to rely on everything else having worked fine.
There is zero evidence this conversation ever truly took place. I have yet to see the person concerned clarify what exactly she said to the FA or an explanation why she simply let the other person sit in the seat her child was occupying.
The FA clearly was in a hurry and not fully aware of the situation. It's easy to simply switch to a likely and convenient explanation when distracted and in a hurry: "Oh there's a child sitting in his mother's lap, must be a lap child then" and may not even have checked her seat plan at that point.
Given the back and forth you often get with seats due to upgrades, no-shows, standbys, people switching seats 'unofficially' without asking, I bet it's far from uncommon on any airline - especially in short-haul with minimal turnarounds - that FAs aren't always 100% aware of whether the seating they see in front of them in the plane matches the manifest and instead have to rely on everything else having worked fine.
#171
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
This statement makes it clear that the F/A incorrectly thought the child was a lap-child and that the mother was hoping for him to sit in an unsold seat. That is why she thought saying "the flight is full" would resolve the issue.
"The Kapolei Middle School teacher says a flight attendant came to check if Taizo was present before a standby passenger showed up with a ticket with the toddler’s seat number.
"Yamauchi says she told a flight attendant about the problem, but the woman just shrugged, said the flight was full, and walked away."
The flight attendant did not understand that the child had a paid ticket nor that the child had reached his second birthday and was no longer eligible to travel as a lap-child.
"Yamauchi says she told a flight attendant about the problem, but the woman just shrugged, said the flight was full, and walked away."
#172
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 3,052
#173
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 30
I want to highlight this. United's claim is that the kid's boarding pass did not scan, i.e. he was a no show. But we all know what happens when a leg is skipped - there is a thread on it - the rest of your reservation is cancelled.
This woman flew back to HNL with her son, so her reservation was not cancelled.
There is some muddled reporting (which I highlighted above) on her complaining when she landed in BOS and being told there was nothing UA would do, and would cancel her return if she wanted any refund on her kids (stolen by United) ticket. It is possible that it had been cancelled and was reinstated, in which case there would be a paper trail. So either it was scanned (most likely, UA is lying, basically par for the course) or the agent who she complained to reinstated it w/o saying. Given how UA agents work, I find it hard to believe if it was cancelled, that would not have been the first thing out of the agent's mouth "well your son's ticket was not scanned so he was a no show, and his reservation was cancelled as a no show, let me see what I can do." Given that this detail was not reported, I think it is most likely that the ticket was scanned (otherwise the head count, which includes lap children would have been off) and United's PR staff is once again lying.
This woman flew back to HNL with her son, so her reservation was not cancelled.
There is some muddled reporting (which I highlighted above) on her complaining when she landed in BOS and being told there was nothing UA would do, and would cancel her return if she wanted any refund on her kids (stolen by United) ticket. It is possible that it had been cancelled and was reinstated, in which case there would be a paper trail. So either it was scanned (most likely, UA is lying, basically par for the course) or the agent who she complained to reinstated it w/o saying. Given how UA agents work, I find it hard to believe if it was cancelled, that would not have been the first thing out of the agent's mouth "well your son's ticket was not scanned so he was a no show, and his reservation was cancelled as a no show, let me see what I can do." Given that this detail was not reported, I think it is most likely that the ticket was scanned (otherwise the head count, which includes lap children would have been off) and United's PR staff is once again lying.
It's just one of any number of possible reasons the GA was handed two BP's and may have only scanned one. That scenario is based on my own observation of individual passengers handing two boarding passes (or in the case of an international flight a passport containing two boarding passes) to the GA. How many times have we seen a large party (grandparents, parents, kids) where the GA is handed a fistful of BP's and struggles to get them all scanned while several of that group start heading down the jetway?
As I said earlier, and will continue to say. This is all a red herring. UAL is claiming it was an issue with the scanning of the board passes. It's easier to use that as an excuse, than to say "Our GA or FA's screwed up, and didn't do their jobs properly." Blaming the scanning of the BPs is an easy out for them. Last thing UAL wants to do is throw their employees under the bus, especially after the Dr. Dao incident. They're trying all they can to deflect away from incompetent, inept, or poorly trained employees, what have you.
#174
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
I'd like to know what her response was to the FA who checked to see if he had boarded...her comment below insinuates the BP was not scanned, and he was indicated as a no-show...
"The Kapolei Middle School teacher says a flight attendant came to check if Taizo was present before a standby passenger showed up with a ticket with the toddler’s seat number.
#175
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 180
The flight was going to a city with identical name, but in a totally different state. My actual flight was 3 gates away. I admit that it was 99% my fault for waiting at the wrong gate and boarding the wrong flight...
I stood up and told the FA that I was on the wrong flight. She walked me up to the door and opened it. I heard her say to the gate agent "another one, AGAIN!" I ran to my correct flight 3 gates away and boarding hadn't even started yet.
#176
Senior Moderator; Moderator, Eco-Conscious Travel, United and Flyertalk Cares
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Moderator Note: I have removed some posts that seemed deliberately intended to provoke by blaming the passenger and by creating wild fantasies to describe what might have occurred. This is not what FlyerTalk is about. If you are confused about what FlyerTalk is, please look to the rules. We aim to be a place that is welcoming and helps people figure out how to have better travel experiences. Please be respectful.
l'etoile
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l'etoile
UA moderator
#177
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 30
I posted right above you, she said in an interview, she heard two distinct beeps, one for each BP that was scanned.
#178
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
Or (!!) the FA went back to visually verify if he was a lap child and made a mistake.
On the other hand, one of the stories shows his BP as 24A, which is the seat the standby got. Not the middle seat.
How do lap children seats show on a BP? Same as parent?
#179
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,236
It's been years since I was in that position, but I found this picture at https://diveforscience.files.wordpre...5/p1020286.jpg (picture of baby holding the BP edited out).
#180
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551