wolf72

Oh my....what an attitude to have. Thank god I never have to work with you in an office or in meetings.

LordTentacle

Thank you

Little things like this make all the difference

FoxFlyer

No one is going to argue with you here, but that is a standard (I would think) across ALL US airlines. And when consumers have a choice in the matter, and safety is more or less a "given" these days, then people can and do vote with their pocketbook. So, when safety is less a consideration, customer experience becomes more important.

I'm not going to disagree that some elites can be a bit overbearing, and even I would never want to work in an industry when I had to personally confront my customers on a hourly or daily basis. But your attitude, frankly, surprised me, and seems to be along the lines of the Smisek era. It's comes across a little like a parent berating a child with a "sit down and shut up" attitude without really taking into account WHY people are complaining.

Yes, some complaints are petty and unnecessary, but I think when you filter through a lot of the discussions on this board, you have a lot of flyers who pay a lot of money to get to their destinations, yet often times are treated as if we should simply be happy we got there safely. If this was Aeroflot in the Cold War, I'd agree with you, but it's 2017, and a lot of airlines are trying to poach YOUR customers. So everyone in your organization should be listening to what people are saying and understanding the fury/rage/unhappiness behind those complaints.

You also must understand that a lot of this comes from customers feeling a complete lack of control. Once we buy a ticket and show up at the airport, we are - more of less - at your complete mercy. We have no real options at that point. Therefore, when things go haywire, or there is a lack of communication, misinformation and sometimes even made up information, we have very little recourse... and we get treated poorly if we even "dare to ask" a question or inquire on information. It's this lack of a social contract (that goes both ways), that I think creates tempests in teapots.

I totally hear what you're saying, and understand your point of view, but I think we all need to hear both sides if we're ever going to find some sort of common ground and understanding.

SMALL ANECDOTE: I just got back from Iceland flying WOWAir, where I have no status... The crews, agents, etc, were all lovely, wonderful, happy, accommodating and cheerful. A day later, I flew an Express flight followed by a United transcon in paid biz (where I have 1K/ Million Miler status) and experienced unhappy FA's and an inoperable lav on the express flight. Guess which airline I was raving about to friends? The one were I have no status, but yet was treated as a valued customer.

ijgordon

Oh, come on now - that's table stakes. If you're not excellent at safety, you should just shut down.

Yes, there are trivial complaints, and there are multi-year threads devoted to them on many/most of the big airline forums here.

But the bottom line is that many passengers are annoyed at the one-sidedness of airline travel and the deteriorating conditions in the back of the plane. E+ type offerings help, although the cost often seems disproportionate to the benefits (e.g., it can easily be a 25-50% premium to the ticket to go from 31" to 35" of pitch.).
On one-sidedness, when was the last time an airline paid ME $250 when they changed the schedule of my flight? If the airlines want to require a 90 minute schedule change before they'll refund your ticket (I'm talking about DL here, not sure of UA's policy), then why can't I move to a flight within 90 minutes of my departure time with no repercussions? Just an example.

bocastephen

Perhaps the OP would be happier flying for Fedex or UPS? They have the wrong attitude for a passenger airline - and based on the email Oscar just blasted out to the FF community, some soul searching to do if they wish to continue in the passenger airline business.

That post smacks of the same attitude illustrated in the article I posted in a different thread. It seems the employees are going to double down on the wrong attitude and the conflict is just going to ramp up in the future.

You think people are angry? You're damn right they are! The problem is you don't seem to understand or comprehend why.

Hipplewm

The kettle name calling....

I look at as more "Uninformed" public who doesn't travel often.

They get taken advantage of routinely. A LOT of us here see it every day, I personally feel sorry for them. The DIFFERENCE - we tend to know our rights and know whom to call or ask for to get what we are due.

For instance, family vacation this summer, just went thru the 3rd schedule change and I spent close to an hour on the 1K line to get everything smoothed out. I am quite positive if I was a kettle, I would have taken whatever came to me and even if I called the regular line, I would have been poo poo'd and that would been the end of it.

To me that is a huge difference and a HUGE leg up we as knowledgeable flyers have over the traveling public.

travelinmanS

United has always been an airline that treated its most frequent customers far better than infrequent customers. They seem to go out of their way sometimes to make sure infrequent customers know they are less valued. This is not just in Economy class with the E+ seating, the ridiculous number of boarding groups, and the free drinks for 1Ks while everyone else is told to pay up; its also in premium classes where frequent customers will get meal choices while the infrequent passenger gets shafted on their choice even if they are paying thousands more for the ticket. IMHO this effort at stratification leads to many passengers having a poor experience. Frequent travelers end up expecting the world and infrequent passengers are just pissed they aren't treated as equals. All the airlines do this to a certain extent but I find UA does it more than others and has done so for the 20 years I've been flying extensively.

That being said, UA seems to be improving and you are right that UA has a very well deserved reputation for safety. I'm just bummed the 757's and 747's are leaving the fleet soon!

SeaHawg

This attitude was why I stopped flying United years ago and vowed never to fly them again- until a few months ago when I contemplated a status challenge later this year on some upcoming *A travel.

The last straw for me years ago was a PEK-SFO flight where the crew was incorrigible and couldn't have given any less bad service if they tried. Of course, the mid-tier platinum status meant nothing at all. Then came Munoz and a promise that things would change.

Given this past week, it appears that changing the toxic culture will be next to impossible. There are way too many rusty moving parts.

halls120

This. x1000. I'm a 1MM UA flyer, and intend to keep flying UA, but the idea that we should ignore obvious abuse in exchange or the privilege of flying is troubling, to say the least.

goalie

+2 for the reasons given above ^ and some of us even give a bag of Tootise-Pops to the flight attendants with instructions to include the pilots just to say thanks (and please feel free to pm me if you've received one )

Welcome to Flyertalk and looking forward to your posts

kettle1

What is the problem with"kettles"?

Signed. Kettle1

DA201

I have seen FAs deal with some pretty obnoxious and mean passengers over the years, and I truly respect everyone in the service industry who is able to keep their cool when someone is yelling in their face.

Yes, I do agree there are many spoiled brats on this website. However, many people present valid complaints, as some people are paying thousands of dollars for a ticket and are therefore expecting at least a certain level of service. Someone complaining about how they ran out of his/her favorite dish is different from someone complaining that the FAs kept them awake on a red-eye flight due to constant chatter. There is a really fine line between being spoiled and having a valid complaint.

I also think it is a problem that some people here put down the majority of passengers who are not frequent flyers. I have had nice conversations with countless people on planes and the non-frequent flyers tend to be more friendly and less snobby.

Many people here sometimes need to act their age when they post. It is always hard to tell how serious, sarcastic, mature, etc. someone is acting when reading an internet post. Face to face conversation is much better.

I agree. At the end of the day it is just a plane ride, and you should manage your frustration.

This site has its flaws, but I would stick with it if I were you. It is really great to hear different people's experiences and advice, and most people are very nice.

radiowell

OP: Welcome to FT! I wish the timing was better to join, but I guess we get to have or read very lively discussions along the way...

I do feel for UA employees who just want to do the right thing but is severely hampered by negativity surrounding UA. I had to have some interactions with UA agents recently after The Incident, and many of them seem or sound very down. I had to try to cheer them up in at least a couple of occasions...

SF1K

I've always had some issues with that argument - only because why do airlines sell and market different classes of service if it is "just a damn airplane ride" - in that case shouldn't all seating and service level on-board be like Southwest or even Spirit? Why even bother to service a drink or a meal or anything?

wolf72

I really wish I could give back some of the nasty treatment me and friends over the years have recieved from UA and their staff.

It would be nice for them to get a taste of what it's like to be talked to rudely and condensendingly and to have someone make them feel less than human.

Oh well, one fine day.