Wow - selling the upgrades at the gate so explicitly.
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
"Someone should tell...."
Give me a break. "Someone" is an employee of a UA doing what his employer directs him to do. His employer is doing what its Board on behalf of its Shareholders is doing, e.g., maximize profits.
As Tblack15 and skgolf91 make clear, the same people who want free UG's ahead of paying customers presumably don't work for free unless there is a business case for it. The business case for free UG's is that if nobody will pay for the seat, it costs little to have it occupied, so might as well pat someone on the head and that might as well be an elite.
Give me a break. "Someone" is an employee of a UA doing what his employer directs him to do. His employer is doing what its Board on behalf of its Shareholders is doing, e.g., maximize profits.
As Tblack15 and skgolf91 make clear, the same people who want free UG's ahead of paying customers presumably don't work for free unless there is a business case for it. The business case for free UG's is that if nobody will pay for the seat, it costs little to have it occupied, so might as well pat someone on the head and that might as well be an elite.
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Programs: Hyatt LT Globalist, Marriot LT Titanium, UA 2.4MM, HH Gold, AS MVPG
Posts: 3,400
But shouldn't United then at least stop advertising CPU and possibly RPU as elite benefits? Or somehow openly say that upgrades may be sold to anyone before these are processed. Just seems like a little bit of "truth in advertising" issue? Or not?
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
I'm sick of hearing that we are a business and we are here to make money BS. There are ways for businesses to make money while keeping their customers happy and not giving out empty promises.
#19
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
The real test that UA continually is running is to see how far they can push an elite before they really lose their business. Once we are "loyal", they have our money so it makes sense to shift focus. Of course, if you ignore the elite long enough, they'll leave and you lose alot.
In DEN, when they sell off an F seat for TOD and the elite loses his spot, how many of them actually decide to take their business elsewhere and how many just curse UA and continue giving them money. I am willing to be 99% are the later. Therefore the test is a success.
Whenever UA makes another devaluation cut, there's always some people on the forum that say "That's the last straw, goodbye UA". But how many actually leave? How many realize that AA or DL just made the same cut (and UA just copied them)?
Yes it sucks and is wrong, but if AA, DL, UA, all "independently" decided tomorrow to completely cut their FF programs, I wonder how much it would really affect things (at least domestically). I'm assuming in a few years they'll all be pretty much equal to spirit. (maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point)
In DEN, when they sell off an F seat for TOD and the elite loses his spot, how many of them actually decide to take their business elsewhere and how many just curse UA and continue giving them money. I am willing to be 99% are the later. Therefore the test is a success.
Whenever UA makes another devaluation cut, there's always some people on the forum that say "That's the last straw, goodbye UA". But how many actually leave? How many realize that AA or DL just made the same cut (and UA just copied them)?
Yes it sucks and is wrong, but if AA, DL, UA, all "independently" decided tomorrow to completely cut their FF programs, I wonder how much it would really affect things (at least domestically). I'm assuming in a few years they'll all be pretty much equal to spirit. (maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point)
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,926
Airlines have no concept of loyalty if they merely view it on a transactional basis.
#21
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
I would find it extremely hard to believe that UA doesn't have sophisticated models of not just the immediate transactional value of selling an upgrade versus CPU versus instrument, but also the predicted long-term financial consequences. They have such a massive dataset...
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,203
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,455
I would find it extremely hard to believe that UA doesn't have sophisticated models of not just the immediate transactional value of selling an upgrade versus CPU versus instrument, but also the predicted long-term financial consequences. They have such a massive dataset...
They are still trying to undo the damage that these Smisek-era blunders caused. I suspect Oscar has no idea this is still going on.
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,926
I would find it extremely hard to believe that UA doesn't have sophisticated models of not just the immediate transactional value of selling an upgrade versus CPU versus instrument, but also the predicted long-term financial consequences. They have such a massive dataset...
But...SHARES.
ETA: (and what Kacee said)
#25
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
#26
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CLE (mostly)
Programs: UA Plat, Hyatt Explorist, Mlife Gold, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 823
Ummm No.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.
#27
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
If they try this, everyone on the upgrade list should go up to the counter and ask that their upgrade be cleared immediately since the cabin obviously didn't fill. This will have the effect of embarrassing the agents, and also clog them up dealing with status holders so they are unable to sell their illicit upgrades.
Safe Travels,
Doc.
Safe Travels,
Doc.
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,886
UA is a business that is selling seats to customers who are willing to buy them. Whether selling them on the web site in advance, or selling them at the gate just before the flight, what is really the difference? Do folks really get upset when UA or other carriers sell out the premium cabin ahead of time with F tickets from the getgo (and yes, many of those are also discount F fares)? Or should they not be allowed to do that, either?
It is implied that UA will try to sell available seats, and that upgrades will be given when there is remaining availability.
UA does give certain benefits to elites, and sometimes, that includes an upgrade to a premium cabin. Maybe elites shouldn't be expecting upgrades 100% of the time. UA as a business decides their strategy for selling seats vs. upgrades. You don't have to like how they do it, but they control their business, not the customers, and presumably, do it in a way that they thinks will maximize profit.
I also find it curious that many on this board (though not necessarily you, specifically) will complain about this, yet will admittedly take a buy up last minute if there are X seats left but they are X+2 on the upgrade list.
Fact is, UA is a business, and they are there to make money (or do shareholders hold stock for a different reason?). If UA thought holding more seats for free upgrades would make them more money, I'm sure they would do it. Clearly, they think selling them will work out better. Again, you don't have to agree, but they are the ones making those decisions.
Their concept of loyalty may be different than yours, but I don't know what the point of status programs are if its not to help build further loyalty. Are they showering benefits on people to uselessly spend money that could be profit?
Ummm No.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
They sell upgrades online, over the phone, on the app and at the kiosk when you check in. I'm not sure why they can't sell them at the gate if they so choose.
I get people like their upgrades (I do too, I just don't complain when I don't get them). Last month, I put up for a miles upgrade from IAD-SFO - as a gold, and even when trying to pay with miles, I was 8 on the list (of 90 or so). Did I come back on FT to complain? No - I sat in my assigned seat in economy, and 5 hours later, got off the plane in SFO, in the product that I paid for. Miles were back in my account in a day or two. Was it ideal? Not really. Was it a big deal, much less the worst thing to happen to me that day? No, absolutely not, either.
My opinion has always been if you need or really want to sit in F, than you pay for that fare outright. Otherwise, you have no guarantee of getting an F seat. Next, we'll have people in here complaining that UA sells E+ seats instead of letting an elite have a free middle next to them.
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Programs: Hyatt LT Globalist, Marriot LT Titanium, UA 2.4MM, HH Gold, AS MVPG
Posts: 3,400
Ummm No.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.
There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.
So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
"Someone should tell...."
Give me a break. "Someone" is an employee of a UA doing what his employer directs him to do. His employer is doing what its Board on behalf of its Shareholders is doing, e.g., maximize profits.
As Tblack15 and skgolf91 make clear, the same people who want free UG's ahead of paying customers presumably don't work for free unless there is a business case for it. The business case for free UG's is that if nobody will pay for the seat, it costs little to have it occupied, so might as well pat someone on the head and that might as well be an elite.
Give me a break. "Someone" is an employee of a UA doing what his employer directs him to do. His employer is doing what its Board on behalf of its Shareholders is doing, e.g., maximize profits.
As Tblack15 and skgolf91 make clear, the same people who want free UG's ahead of paying customers presumably don't work for free unless there is a business case for it. The business case for free UG's is that if nobody will pay for the seat, it costs little to have it occupied, so might as well pat someone on the head and that might as well be an elite.