DawgmanOH

The problem with saying "that's the way it's done everywhere else in the world" is that, by far, flying economy in the US is abysmal compared to other airlines. If they are going to conform, then conform. Give us a better economy product. But, the public won't pay more for more amenities so the only way to convince business travelers to fly is the remote chance of a free upgrade. There's a reason US airlines are the only ones to offer free upgrades and it is because economy is miserable and they know it. I can stand flying Qantas or Singapore or Emirates in economy. It is civilized.

docbert

Those same "top airlines" offer different benefits to their elites compared to US airlines. For example, most other airlines offer lounge access on all flights to elite members - US airlines don't.

Every airline/region has their own benefits for elites. Just because one doesn't offer something doesn't mean that others should.

Lurch

I saw it in Chicago last year. I complained to the agent but was ignored,

gold23

I'm caught in the middle on this issue.... As a platinum, I was upgraded exactly twice last year- both on regionals under 1500 miles when I booked Y because the qualitative difference was minimal and not worth the price.

Over the past year, I've booked into F on literally every flight I have over 2 hrs. UA made those fares more than reasonable- and combined with the comfort, lessened stress level, and additional PQM it made a lot of personal sense. I fly out of EWR, and on the longer routes have an almost 0% chance of an upgrade unless it's a pure leisure route.

So I'm on board with UA's business model of selling the first class seats as opposed to allowing elites upgrades. I do, however, have an issue with the optics of doing so at the gate. Offer the buy up at check in for non-elites. Once at the gate, reserve that for elite upgrades. If you make the buy up reasonable, you'll sell most of the seats.

As an elite, when I arrive at the airport and see 0 seats remaining in F while I'm booked in Y, I have no reaction. I'm resigned to Y and go about my business. If I arrive and see half a dozen seats....I immediately check my number on the list and determine the likelihood of an upgrade. If the GA unexpectedly throws this chance in the toiler? I'm livid.

Those arguing "it's a business"? Of course it is. But a good business model maximizes revenue while minimizing negative customer impact. Offering the upgrades at the gate (as opposed to after booking, in an email offer prior to check in, or at check in) spits in the face of your best customers.

Phil Level

Who remembers E-500 certs? I have no problem with UA selling upgrades, and I used to buy E-500 all the time for that reason.

Another FT member who is 1K for many years and spends huge amounts of $ on airline travel told me about an SFO-JFK PS flight he took with a family member who had no status (separate PNRs). The 1K was not offered an upgrade, but the non-status was offered $129 upgrade. This policy & action just makes no sense to me.

halls120

I'm with gold23. Domestically, I'm booking P fares these days because they are affordable and I'm not playing the UG lottery. Internationally, I don't have GPUs so I will go UA if I can secure an UG at check in with miles/money. Otherwise, I buy PE on the competition, because the UA of today doesn't just not value my loyalty, they spit in our faces with their new practice of hawking paid upgrades while customers with instruments are ignored.

stevendorechester

I agree with you that U.S. airlines don' t compare to airlines such as SQ or EK, I' ve flown economy intra-Europe, on some flights that are as long as U.S. domestic flights and the experience is not much better, except for a free cheese sandwich and some house wine.

I just think U.S carriers should be doing everything to sell premium seats to those willing to pay for them. Elite flyers are just going to have to get used to it. There are three main choices of airlines for domestic business travelers and they are already operating full planes.

If elite flyers knew that there chances of an upgrade are almost zero then they will probably start paying for first class. The chances are close to zero anyways on many flights. I've seen twenty-thirty people standing around podiums on some days, all trying trying to convince gate agents that they should get the first class seat that isn' t there.

Perhaps airlines could find an other way to reward loyalty, such as free snacks and beverages or lounge access, as well as occasionally offering upgrades that can be confirmed when the ticket is purchased.

Ber2dca

The rule of thumb is that the better a business is doing with customers, the less they need 'loyalty programs'. Loyalty programs with perks are an attempt by a business to tie a customer to the business who otherwise would give a big % of their business to a competitor. If the business feels that demand for the product is more than enough anyway, well they'll obviously be less keen to give stuff away for free.

It seems that devaluing loyalty programs has been something done across the board on all major airlines in the last few years, which have seen a much better business climate for airlines across the board than the preceding decade.

minnyfly

Can't state that anyone is incorrect. Back in 2015, Kirby stated that 87% of AA customers flew the airline once or less per year and contributed more than 50% of the revenue. That jives with what we remember about UA's statements.

That's true. Just because you're a big spender doesn't automatically mean you're more profitable.

I fly only a fraction of as many DL flights as you, usually in elite-heavy regions, unlike your base region, and I've seen this done more than you?

It's complete nonsense to say any one type of traveler is more important to the bottom line. They're all important. But the most important traveler is one that pays the most for the least. That could be the big-wig businessmen paying for F, or it could be Joe Blow stuck in the back row middle to get home for a funeral. In general, the latter is closer to how DL gets you to pay more for less. Less competition=more market power=more profit.

The downside I see at check-in is that it's not going to be the best way to get the message out to everyone. Some people may never have a chance to see it and study it. Not every traveler is going to be as interested to do this at check-in as they will at the gate. For those that check-in at the airport, that's not exactly the leisurely time you can think about buying an upgrade.

Nicholas

They also claim to be in the loyalty business -- can't have it both ways.

username

Sounds like a US Air/America West practice brought over by Kirby?

Ber2dca

That's a misunderstanding. Loyalty is a value and not a commodity. And it's one generally quite absent in the interactions between customers and businesses today. If UA and MileagePlus ceased to be the best option for people, most MP users and posters here probably would jump ship without thinking twice.

As a value, of course, loyalty is only showcased when people stick with someone even if could be to their disadvantage.

MileagePlus could perhaps be better described as a marketing program. It's part of UA's selling proposition. Its benefits are thus always measured against their utilitarian value for the company's sales. If UA feels it can make more money through straight up sales rather than giving stuff away to get people invested in MP then that's just a business decision and it's up to you to make your consumer decision.

notquiteaff

Except that "free" elite upgrades aren't free. They are earned and effectively paid for with prior travel.

Would it be reasonable if UA instituted an (unpublished) rule to make at most one "free" upgrade per flight and sell of the remaining seats for $5 or more to anyone willing to pay? All in the name of "bring a business" of course... no hard feelings, dear 1Ks.

1P

If you fly less than once, you aren't contributing any revenue at all, let alone 50%.

In this whole discussion, no one has yet raised the difference between RPU/GPU and CPU. If there are people on the upgrade list who are using an instrument, as opposed to hoping for a free upgrade, then I think they should be upgraded before anyone tries to sell off the remaining F seats. CPUs I am not worried about. The question is, can SHARES tell the difference between those using an instrument and those hoping for a freebie?

bubbashow

To where is everybody going to run? I am a Diamond on Delta....they sell upgrades prior to list clearing (quite aggressively I might add). I am new to UA - I have been flying them quite a bit lately as well (without status). My contract allows me paid F/J over a certain length of flight. On those that don't, I have loved the fact I can (usually) buy an "affordable" upgrade.

It is a business to make money. Every domestic airline does it. Want first, buy first.