tom911

Surely you've read the same posts I have? Quite a few seem to be leaving due to the changes in Mileage Plus and how miles are accrued. I left over the changes in million miler benefits. Just because the planes are full doesn't mean long-time UA flyers aren't leaving.

bseller

I'm surprised that "planes full" seems to mean "UA doing right things" to you.

Full planes become empty when the wind turns. It's THEN that I want my lifetime status to stay.

Dave

transportbiz

Indeed the planes are full. But, there are less of those planes, and they are smaller planes. I love flying an A319 coast to coast.

LaserSailor

Thread title is " how many are leaving"

My answer is "about the same number who are coming"

I'm not going to debate the HVF situation as:

I don't know
I don't have data
No one here has data
Everyone has an opinion
Everyone has made their opinion known here in many other threads

" doing the right thing?" is also hashed to death elsewhere.

Trying to extrapolate this stuff from outliers here, though, is fatal.

porciuscato

ET wouldn't do it. But AirAsia or RyanAir might if they could. I'm just waiting for that planeload of Tia Carreras with plates of Mee Goreng flying in to rescue me... sigh.


Some have left and some have come -- the numbers haven't changed that much. It's just that the planes have been down-gauged. 737s to Hawaii; 757s across the Atlantic, etc. Those planes weren't designed to fly that far -- particularly not full.

Always Flyin

Air Asia does not give you free check-in baggage. It is an add-on to the base fare.

The PRASM numbers tell us that the fliers who are coming are buying tickets at lower prices than those who are leaving. Spin it however you want, UA is only attractive to those in captive hubs, GS and Kettles.

artvandalay

^We know what UA thinks of HVFs, and unless you are one of those you mention, he's making it worthwhile to shop. Invariably, the shopping proves to be a pleasant experience. (I enjoy transitting SFO expecting an ontime departure, instead of praying there's no IRROP on UA, for example.)

It's what the replacements for the HVFs will spend on UA per year that I believe will come back to haunt UA one day. Business is good. Gas is cheap. The elevator goes up; the elevator goes down.

sean5280

I guess I am!

Had been a UA loyalist after living in 3 hub cities (IAD, DEN, and SFO) over the past 15 years. Gold for years (GA once told me I earned it the "hard way" - all domestic, and on miles not segments)... and with a new job I'm not getting the flights I used to.

Let my UC membership go (after 8 years!) and discovered that the gate facilities at a lot of airports are quite nice (love the new T3 at SFO - same egg chairs!). I now pack snacks instead of sneaking carrots and ranch and cheese out of the UC.

Dropped from *G to *S this year - I see little value in *S; I treasured *G for the E+ assignment at booking and a stateside reservationist to call if I ran into major trouble.

489,000 lifetime miles, and I'm gonna give another carrier some time now.

I now have 5 confirmed segments on WN; yes, it's a bus-with-wings, but I hear they serve pretzels. And I had to cancel segment 6, and instead of eating the fare value they just gave me flight credit to use within a year.

It's a change I think I'm really excited about.

amartin1979

My last revenue United flight is booked for May. Burning one last ecert. Happily enjoying carriers that value my business this year. Not missing the anti customer and constantly delayed United at all.

RNE

Me too. That's why I suck it up and re-qualify every year. You're not going to have any of that on Southwest. Enlighten me with your thinking here.

sean5280

I don't consider *S to be any valuable level of status (no upgrades, no E+ at booking, same priority as the credit card people)...

So if I have essentially no status, why not try another carrier (where I have no status)...I watched my Premier status drop in value over the years, I've not been happy with UA's product ... so why not shop around?

I flew DL once last year and found their product - even with no Medallion status - to be quite pleasant by compare.

Upside for me: WN has been expanding in DEN considerably, their personnel seem nice(r) (everyone at UA has been grouchy over the last 3 years!), no RJs...Downside: more leisure pax less business types, more connections, and my toosh may still have to suffer through sitting in those Recaro Slimline TortureSeats....

mchapeiii

Why are people leaving UA? Perhaps it's because of experiences like this. I was booked on 789, Bos/Iah connecting to 1574 Iah/Las today 4/13. I was in G class on 789 and upgraded first on 1574. When I checked in yesterday, the website said one segment was oversold. I checked the bump box. This morning I called the elite desk and was told 789 was oversold by two.

At 11:09 I got a call from the airline asking if I was willing to take a bump. We agreed on a $400 travel cert and an upgrade to first on 1616 Bos/Sfo connecting to 392 Sfo/Las, tomorrow 4/14. The man said they'd get back to me if the bump was needed.

When I arrived at the airport, about 3:30 I checked with Customer Service. The woman at the desk said the flight was still oversold. I went down to Gate B26 to wait for flight 789 to board. At 3:51 I got an email on my phone with boarding passes for Bos/Sfo/Las for tomorrow. However they were in coach. There was no-one at the gate, so I went back to Customer Service. The same woman confirmed that I was bumped. She said the Gate Attendants would issue the cert and boarding passes for tomorrow.

While waiting for the gate agent, I called and rescheduled my day. However, when I got to the gate, I was told there was no bump. I showed him the boarding passes on my phone. He said a mistake must've been made, but he didn't make it, so he wasn't honoring the terms of the bump. He said I could fly tomorrow, but I had to fly economy. Not economy plus. Back of the plane.

I returned to Customer Service where the woman was horrified. But her hands were tied. She said I should call the Elite Desk. I spoke to a woman in Houston who said, yes, she saw I had been bumped, but it was a call at the Gate and there was nothing she could do. She passed me on to a Supervisor who said it wasn't her call. I had to talk to Customer Care.

I called Customer Care. I got a recorded message saying I had to submit a form by email. Finally, I threw up my hands and went home.

At 7 pm I logged onto the website to get my boarding passes. There was no reservation. Nothing. So I got back on the phone with the Elite Desk. Fortunately, I got a rep who listened to what I said and spent 20 minutes doing the forensic work to reconstruct the file. In doing so she was able to verify what I told her. Additionally, someone had put a note in the file that I had "refused an upgrade." No. What happened was UA made a mistake. They chose not to correct it. Then they tried to cover their butt. The rep was able to get me on the flight, in Economy Plus, no less. But FC was sold out so, even though the file showed the upgrade was to be given, it wasn't available. I received my boarding passes at 7:51 pm.

She turned me over to a Supervisor to see if we could fix the travel cert issue. After apologizing numerous times, she said the file supported my claim, but she was unable to fix it. I had to go through Customer Care for redress. BTW, I have the names of everyone I interacted with in this incident.

So I'll finish this trip and then I'm done with UA. The Corporate Culture is toxic. They've become focused on the last nickel, keeping the employees cowed and afraid to make decisions and tossing crumbs to their passengers. I don't have a large Corporate Travel Budget. I run a small, independent production company. But having all the facts supporting your case and being a 1.5MM flyer should stand for something. That doesn't seem to be the case. UA has thrown away my business. I don't think I'm the only one.

Baze

You keep mentioning *S and *G. I am pretty sure you mean Premier Silver and Premier Gold which are UA Statuses. *S and *G are Star Alliance statuses and are very different.

gengar

Why does it matter if WN doesn't offer him the things he doesn't have anymore at UA? If the decrease in perks brings UA down to WN in some respects, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a reason to switch; on the contrary, it makes it easier to switch for all the other reasons that WN might be better for him than UA, including what he mentioned in the post.

spin88

Actually, you have a lot of data, and it only points one way:

(1) UA said it lost elite fliers c2012-2013 and it has NEVER claimed it has recovered them. If they were doing well in this department, expect them to say something, they have not, and AA and DL have....

(2) PRASM has fallen compared to DL and AA (not to mention other airlines) absent another explanation, which UA has not tried to make, the only explanation is loss of folks who will pay more to fly you, to OALs.

(3) at certain UA hubs, competitors have done very very well, picking up PRASM, and market share (see VX at SFO, DL at LAX) that suggests that many of these folks are coming from UA.

(4) United now often, in fact nearly always is, cheaper on competitive routes. This was HP/US's pattern when they lost HVFers. They attracted on price. The last four routing I booked (all in domestic F) were respectively $280 (but booking went to VX), $230 (but booking went to DL), $290 (but booking went to VX) and $320 (but booking went to DL) cheaper on UA. The last UA routing I booked was $800 cheaper than any other option, and then had I taken a UA connection (vs ANA connection) on the middle leg, it would have been yet another $200 cheaper. When UA is consistently cheaper, other than from fortress hubs where they have the only N/S, it says a lot about their competitive posture.

(5) anecdotally, there are literally thousand of FTers, may of many years posting history, all of which have left UA due to the poor service/product, over the last three years. Delta/AA? Other than those moving to a UA hub, the switchers are few and far between. If your thesis were true, we would see EXPs/DMs up the wazo flocking to UAfkaCO, yet we see almost none. On the other hand long term 1Ks/GS with UA routinely post they are flying OALs, not UAL. I know you disregard what FTers say, but FT is a hyper awair/thought leader group. Its sort of like when the car nuts say the car is a piece of crap. What the thought leaders are doing but impacts what others are doing, and proceeds what large numbers of people will do

(6) United has scored dead last in nearly every survey/report/poll in the last three years. Dead last. One would expect to see what FT and the PRASM/yield numbers show for an airline that is this abysmal. The pattern we appear to see, matches what we would expect to see.

(7) finally, the argument we have heard for three years from UA (and its astro-turf) is that the "savvy" plan was to cut expenses, offer lower quality product/service as people buy on price and network (oh, and the "game changing 787"). Yet, after three years of bad returns and bad yield/PRASM performance we see promises of major improvements in service and product quality. I believe the leppard has not changed its spots, but is speaks strongly that United is not doing well. Admitting mistakes is not in the CO ethic, and the change in plan is an admission things are not going as expected.

If you have some logical explanation for your "everything is hunky doorie" at UA thesis, post away, but all of the "evidence" that is available suggests it is not going so hot, and you are dead wrong....