How many are REALLY leaving UA? [ARCHIVE]
Apr 2, 2015, 5:53 am
#751
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: UA SP, DL SM MM, AS 75K, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond.
Posts: 2,596
Errrrr????
Apr 2, 2015, 9:41 am
#752
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Whether or not UA is losing HVFs, their PRASM performance is weaker than it should be, which means whatever they're doing is wrong.
Apr 2, 2015, 9:53 am
#753
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
First, I refer you to my long standing position: I am a UA Flyer primarily because of my SFO base. UA meets my needs from every perspective as a frequent flyer, more often than not, and I anticipate continuing my run of 1K / Plat for as long as I continue to live where I live and travel for business and pleasure.
Now, on to my post!
When did UA announce the $2B in cost cutting?
Do you recall the specific elements (breakdown) that made up the total $ figure?
What date did they complete the $2B in cost cutting? Or do you think it continues today?
This '$2B in cuts!!! OMG !!!' that critics like to roll out is similar to the 'John Rainey thinks elites are overentitled' mantra that has also passed it's expiration date (in my opinion).
The environment is dynamic, things are continuing to change. What is the situation today, and what are your thoughts on and response to this situation?
Some examples of recent changes that I think are positive, others may disagree:
- North American premium cabin menu refresh (including UAX)
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...st/dining.aspx
- Improved fresh options for BoB
- Personal Device Entertainment (still need to work on power to all seats)
- Wifi - late to the game, catching up though. If you look at this page, it indicates that all fleets will be completed by November '15 (including RJ's):
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...i/default.aspx
- The new Premium Check in / Security area at SFO
- SFO T3 improvements, T3E especially
Now, on to my post!
When did UA announce the $2B in cost cutting?
Do you recall the specific elements (breakdown) that made up the total $ figure?
What date did they complete the $2B in cost cutting? Or do you think it continues today?
This '$2B in cuts!!! OMG !!!' that critics like to roll out is similar to the 'John Rainey thinks elites are overentitled' mantra that has also passed it's expiration date (in my opinion).
The environment is dynamic, things are continuing to change. What is the situation today, and what are your thoughts on and response to this situation?
Some examples of recent changes that I think are positive, others may disagree:
- North American premium cabin menu refresh (including UAX)
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...st/dining.aspx
- Improved fresh options for BoB
- Personal Device Entertainment (still need to work on power to all seats)
- Wifi - late to the game, catching up though. If you look at this page, it indicates that all fleets will be completed by November '15 (including RJ's):
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...i/default.aspx
- The new Premium Check in / Security area at SFO
- SFO T3 improvements, T3E especially
Apr 2, 2015, 11:03 am
#754
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Just because UA spins something as positive, does not mean it is.
Reductions in meals on hundreds of flights; serving coach meals in First Class but on plates.
Changing a menu that's been in place for 4 years.
No PTVs on new planes like their competitors.
Catching up to the competition with a product that's not unified, with no annual or cross-carrier purchase options (e.g., A Gogo annual pass user can use their Gogo account on AA, DL, AS, VX, etc.).
Baggage self-tagging for Premium customers.
While they consolidated the T1 and T3 mess, I believe this is a total of fewer gates than PMUA + PMCO had combined.
- North American premium cabin menu refresh (including UAX)
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...st/dining.aspx
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...st/dining.aspx
Changing a menu that's been in place for 4 years.
- Wifi - late to the game, catching up though. If you look at this page, it indicates that all fleets will be completed by November '15 (including RJ's):
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...i/default.aspx
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...i/default.aspx
Baggage self-tagging for Premium customers.
While they consolidated the T1 and T3 mess, I believe this is a total of fewer gates than PMUA + PMCO had combined.
Apr 2, 2015, 11:45 am
#755
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
[Unduly personalized text edited by Moderator per FT Rule 12.]
I know you love to roll this out, and it may even in fact be true.
But, what about the flights (it may be hundreds, or thousands) that now:
a) Have a meal that did not have one before
b) Have additional choices for meals (additional entress choices)
c) Are Express flights that formerly had nothing that will have a meal
- and I'll throw this in, even though it is not a 'meal':
d) The much improved snack selection on the flights that are snack basket only
When you count the 'hundreds of flights' that have a reduction in meals, I assume you are referring to flights that used to have meal service, but are now in the time windows that UA no longer serves meals?
- Between 1:30 PM and 3:59 PM
- After 8:01 or 9:01 PM (depending upon distance)
Please clarify.
United's current Premium Dining guidelines
Mainline
00–799 miles (Approximately 1–2:20 hours)
These flights feature light breakfast refreshments on flights departing before 9:59 a.m.
A selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit on flights departing after 10 a.m.
800–1,499 miles (Approximately 2:20–4 hours)
Full meal service with two entree choices on most flights departing between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m.
On flights departing between 1:30 p.m. and 3:59 p.m. and all flights departing after 8:01 p.m., a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit are offered between traditional meal times.
1,500-2,299 miles (Approximately 4-5:20 hours)
Full meal service on flights departing between 5 a.m. and 9 p.m. and includes three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner.
On flights departing after 9:01 p.m., a selection of premium packaged snacks and fresh fruit are offered.
Longer than 2,300 miles (Approximately 5:20 hours or longer)
Trans-continental and Hawaii flights departing before 9 p.m. offer a full meal service, which includes multi-course meals with three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner; a selection of premium packaged snacks and fresh fruit as a mid-flight snack on longer-haul Hawaii flights; and a pre-arrival refreshment or snack on all flights.
p.s.® Premium Service
Full meal service, which includes international quality multi-course meals, with three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner.
United Express
United is introducing premium cabin meal service on United Express flights on Embraer EMB 170 and EMB 175 aircraft on March 1, 2015, and on Bombardier CRJ 700 and Q400 aircraft in April of 2015.
Less than 199 miles (Approximately 1 hour or less)
Beverage of your choice served with a premium biscotti on flights departing before 9:59 a.m. or a premium snack mix on flights departing after 10 a.m.
200–799 miles (Approximately 1–2:20 hours)
These flights feature light breakfast refreshments on flights departing before 9:59 a.m. or a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit on flights departing after 10 a.m.
More than 800 miles (Approximately 2:20 hours or longer)
On short- and medium-haul flights, we offer a full meal service with two entree choices on most flights departing between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m.
On flights departing between 1:30 p.m. and 3:59 p.m. and all flights departing after 8:01 p.m., a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit are offered between traditional meal times.
I know you love to roll this out, and it may even in fact be true.
But, what about the flights (it may be hundreds, or thousands) that now:
a) Have a meal that did not have one before
b) Have additional choices for meals (additional entress choices)
c) Are Express flights that formerly had nothing that will have a meal
- and I'll throw this in, even though it is not a 'meal':
d) The much improved snack selection on the flights that are snack basket only
When you count the 'hundreds of flights' that have a reduction in meals, I assume you are referring to flights that used to have meal service, but are now in the time windows that UA no longer serves meals?
- Between 1:30 PM and 3:59 PM
- After 8:01 or 9:01 PM (depending upon distance)
Please clarify.
United's current Premium Dining guidelines
Mainline
00–799 miles (Approximately 1–2:20 hours)
These flights feature light breakfast refreshments on flights departing before 9:59 a.m.
A selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit on flights departing after 10 a.m.
800–1,499 miles (Approximately 2:20–4 hours)
Full meal service with two entree choices on most flights departing between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m.
On flights departing between 1:30 p.m. and 3:59 p.m. and all flights departing after 8:01 p.m., a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit are offered between traditional meal times.
1,500-2,299 miles (Approximately 4-5:20 hours)
Full meal service on flights departing between 5 a.m. and 9 p.m. and includes three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner.
On flights departing after 9:01 p.m., a selection of premium packaged snacks and fresh fruit are offered.
Longer than 2,300 miles (Approximately 5:20 hours or longer)
Trans-continental and Hawaii flights departing before 9 p.m. offer a full meal service, which includes multi-course meals with three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner; a selection of premium packaged snacks and fresh fruit as a mid-flight snack on longer-haul Hawaii flights; and a pre-arrival refreshment or snack on all flights.
p.s.® Premium Service
Full meal service, which includes international quality multi-course meals, with three entree choices on flights that provide breakfast, lunch or dinner.
United Express
United is introducing premium cabin meal service on United Express flights on Embraer EMB 170 and EMB 175 aircraft on March 1, 2015, and on Bombardier CRJ 700 and Q400 aircraft in April of 2015.
Less than 199 miles (Approximately 1 hour or less)
Beverage of your choice served with a premium biscotti on flights departing before 9:59 a.m. or a premium snack mix on flights departing after 10 a.m.
200–799 miles (Approximately 1–2:20 hours)
These flights feature light breakfast refreshments on flights departing before 9:59 a.m. or a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit on flights departing after 10 a.m.
More than 800 miles (Approximately 2:20 hours or longer)
On short- and medium-haul flights, we offer a full meal service with two entree choices on most flights departing between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m.
On flights departing between 1:30 p.m. and 3:59 p.m. and all flights departing after 8:01 p.m., a selection of premium snacks and fresh fruit are offered between traditional meal times.
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Apr 2, 2015 at 2:03 pm Reason: See note above.
Apr 2, 2015, 12:39 pm
#756
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
[Moderator edit of quote since deleted as unduly personalized and deletion of member's reply thereto.]
Right. Every redeye, many afternoon midcons, and some late evening flights is a lot of flights. I haven't counted them up, but it's definitely over 100. I have a late EWR-SFO next month with no meal in F.
What about them?
They touted an improvement while slashing service on hundreds of flights. They didn't market it as a redistribution.
But overall,
a) the added meals on shorter flights is a positive for those flights.
b) the additional entree choice is nice, but keep in mind the quality remains poor. My last first class breakfast was literally the same breakfast they sold in Y for $9.99 (though it was served on a plate, not in plastic)
c) Express flights are catching up to the competition. DL and AA had proper food on their Express flights for years.
d) I wouldn't necessarily classify the snack basket as "much improved." The quality of the products in the basket is comparable to the old basket, and the basket is what's served on the flights that had their meals removed.
I know you love to roll this out, and it may even in fact be true.
...
When you count the 'hundreds of flights' that have a reduction in meals, I assume you are referring to flights that used to have meal service, but are now in the time windows that UA no longer serves meals?
- Between 1:30 PM and 3:59 PM
- After 8:01 or 9:01 PM (depending upon distance)
Please clarify.
...
When you count the 'hundreds of flights' that have a reduction in meals, I assume you are referring to flights that used to have meal service, but are now in the time windows that UA no longer serves meals?
- Between 1:30 PM and 3:59 PM
- After 8:01 or 9:01 PM (depending upon distance)
Please clarify.
But, what about the flights (it may be hundreds, or thousands) that now:
a) Have a meal that did not have one before
b) Have additional choices for meals (additional entress choices)
c) Are Express flights that formerly had nothing that will have a meal
- and I'll throw this in, even though it is not a 'meal':
d) The much improved snack selection on the flights that are snack basket only
a) Have a meal that did not have one before
b) Have additional choices for meals (additional entress choices)
c) Are Express flights that formerly had nothing that will have a meal
- and I'll throw this in, even though it is not a 'meal':
d) The much improved snack selection on the flights that are snack basket only
They touted an improvement while slashing service on hundreds of flights. They didn't market it as a redistribution.
But overall,
a) the added meals on shorter flights is a positive for those flights.
b) the additional entree choice is nice, but keep in mind the quality remains poor. My last first class breakfast was literally the same breakfast they sold in Y for $9.99 (though it was served on a plate, not in plastic)
c) Express flights are catching up to the competition. DL and AA had proper food on their Express flights for years.
d) I wouldn't necessarily classify the snack basket as "much improved." The quality of the products in the basket is comparable to the old basket, and the basket is what's served on the flights that had their meals removed.
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 pm Reason: See note above.
Apr 2, 2015, 12:52 pm
#758
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
In 2013.
They didn't break the dollar amounts down by category but this is what they broadly stated:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...119-story.html
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...07693313317838
It will take until 2017.
Do you recall the specific elements (breakdown) that made up the total $ figure?
The $2 billion in annual savings by 2017 are expected to come from cutting fuel consumption by flying more fuel-efficient planes, increasing productivity with new technology and improving maintenance procedures, among other efforts, airline officials said.
Meanwhile, United officials said they want to increase by $700 million the revenue the carrier generates from bag check fees, onboard meals and entertainment and access to airport lounges and roomier seats. The airline estimates it will collect $2.8 billion in such revenue in 2013.
Meanwhile, United officials said they want to increase by $700 million the revenue the carrier generates from bag check fees, onboard meals and entertainment and access to airport lounges and roomier seats. The airline estimates it will collect $2.8 billion in such revenue in 2013.
It also projected a 15% to 20% increase in employee productivity, in part by having fliers tag their own checked bags and swipe their own boarding passes to get on a plane. Officials declined to comment on any possible staffing changes.
What date did they complete the $2B in cost cutting? Or do you think it continues today?
Apr 2, 2015, 1:37 pm
#759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
No. But again, this was marketed as an improvement. It was not marketed as a competitive alignment, or a redistribution of catering budget, or whatever.
When something is hyped with fanfare as they've done, I don't think anyone was expecting to see hundreds of flights with downgraded service as they've done.
When something is hyped with fanfare as they've done, I don't think anyone was expecting to see hundreds of flights with downgraded service as they've done.
Apr 2, 2015, 1:40 pm
#760
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 1,208
i don't know, but we used to get that mediterannean flight on a transcon red eye. i was looking forward to it. and i got a snack basket. i was not happy. oh well. i didn't buy the ticket. it was a reroute from AA who had atc issues and kindly put me on UA booked in full Y so i stole someone's upgrade. and i got a snack basket. pathetic. hub to hub (sfo/ewr)
Apr 2, 2015, 2:18 pm
#761
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
I really should have known better.
Flying SAN to SFO today on UA 526. Scheduled for departure at 11:57.
Chose United due to the departure time. Fare was competitive.
Delayed 223 minutes for incoming aircraft from IAD. 3-1/2 hours.
Yeah, United, you have my back.
Why wouldn't I leave this airline???
Flying SAN to SFO today on UA 526. Scheduled for departure at 11:57.
Chose United due to the departure time. Fare was competitive.
Delayed 223 minutes for incoming aircraft from IAD. 3-1/2 hours.
Yeah, United, you have my back.
Why wouldn't I leave this airline???
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 2, 2015 at 3:56 pm Reason: Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed. http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#offensive
Apr 2, 2015, 10:14 pm
#762
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
First, I refer you to my long standing position: I am a UA Flyer primarily because of my SFO base. UA meets my needs from every perspective as a frequent flyer, more often than not, and I anticipate continuing my run of 1K / Plat for as long as I continue to live where I live and travel for business and pleasure.
I am former IAH flyer, now DFW only thanks to UA :-: shrinking :-: at DAL
Seems that Virgin, Southwest and Delta see the value of flying business pax closer to downtown where they want to be, UA, not so much.
Once again, shrinking to profitability
And UA would actually work for me, except that they can't keep their planes on schedule, or just plain flying.
They've mostly done OK domestically, well except when I connect to an int'l flight, then they have a bad habit of going MX which causes me to miss my connection
Meals on larger RJs, WiFi on larger RJs - UA is rolling this out two years after competition has pretty much completed this.
Ditto for meals in RJs
So sadly true. See retreat from DAL many, many other missteps my UA.
channa, you can be a little over the top, but by and large, your critique is mostly accurate. Sadly so ...
Thanks for posting, had a busy day at work with no time for cyberloafing and posting on FT
Apr 3, 2015, 8:43 am
#764
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CA, FL, and China.
Programs: UA1K (no longer serviced!), Bonvoy P, Hyatt G
Posts: 704
Why would somebody want to be served food on a regional jet?
Go to a restaurant. Airplane food, regardless of class, is not very enjoyable.
Go to a restaurant. Airplane food, regardless of class, is not very enjoyable.
Apr 3, 2015, 8:47 am
#765
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068