Overhearing conversation with an oversold flight....
Aug 1, 2016, 10:47 am
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
So where should selling F seats at discounts stop? Please bear with me, I'm asking a serious question here.
UA, and practically every other airline in the world uses revenue management to decide how much a seat should sell for, and under what conditions it would sell at a discounted rate vs. a higher rate, right. So why should UA be able to have variable pricing on a Y seat, based on how far in advance I am buying, whether I am staying 2 days vs. 3 days, or even what days those are (Saturday night stay vs. staying over other nights instead), but not be able to use various conditions for when they will sell an F seat at a discount. And why is it so horrible that UA sells buy-ups after purchase, but its ok for them to sell a P fare or an A fare instead of a full F fare - aren't they all essentially F seats sold at a discount?
If someone else buys a P fare, they're getting a discounted seat and you're not po'd because you don't know they're getting that offer, while all of a sudden its a buy-up, and you supposedly do. And do you take advantage of P fares, while suggesting buy-ups aren't a valid way of selling seats in premium, even if they ended up paying a similar price to you when all is said and done.
UA, and practically every other airline in the world uses revenue management to decide how much a seat should sell for, and under what conditions it would sell at a discounted rate vs. a higher rate, right. So why should UA be able to have variable pricing on a Y seat, based on how far in advance I am buying, whether I am staying 2 days vs. 3 days, or even what days those are (Saturday night stay vs. staying over other nights instead), but not be able to use various conditions for when they will sell an F seat at a discount. And why is it so horrible that UA sells buy-ups after purchase, but its ok for them to sell a P fare or an A fare instead of a full F fare - aren't they all essentially F seats sold at a discount?
If someone else buys a P fare, they're getting a discounted seat and you're not po'd because you don't know they're getting that offer, while all of a sudden its a buy-up, and you supposedly do. And do you take advantage of P fares, while suggesting buy-ups aren't a valid way of selling seats in premium, even if they ended up paying a similar price to you when all is said and done.
Last edited by Baze; Aug 1, 2016 at 10:58 am Reason: Fixed typos
Aug 1, 2016, 10:54 am
#77
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,329
These buy ups are different flavors. If it is a true up fare type buy up then it is a paid premium cabin seat. If it is an upgrade for cash it is just another for of upgrade like a CPU/GPU/RPU/Miles. It is still a coach ticket. And UA even delineates the difference. A true buy up (up fare) gets extra PQD's, the buy up (upgrade fee) does not even thought it may change to a P or A fare. So, any type of upgrade should be first to be downgraded in the case of plane swap to less premium seats. And the true premium paid fares should be last to be sent back.
Aug 1, 2016, 1:01 pm
#78
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,175
I agree with you - but I wonder if this would be what is actually most profitable to UA? If one accepts the fact that at UA profits > loyalty (FYI this is not a slam) then one has to wonder about how they would process "downgrades". In the end I think UA walks the fine line between the two pretty well actually...
(I drive all of my business to UA -- and it's almost all full fare -- you wouldn't catch me dead on Delta, but if American tried luring me hard enough they could probably win my business. But I'm in the lucky position of being in full control of my travel & setting corporate travel policy)
Aug 1, 2016, 1:05 pm
#79
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,650
Let's not forget UA isn't giving upgrades to elites where they think they can sell a seat - they're not going to be giving them away at T-72, or 48, or whatever, if they think they can get $ off of it - whether it is a last minute booking, or someone buying up. Or they're doing it because Y is oversold, and they think by pushing someone up, they can get an additional Y sale.
Given the new normal, how about not giving away CPU at all until the day of departure? That way you might be able to make those who are displaced by MX a bit happier for their inconvenience....
Aug 1, 2016, 1:25 pm
#80
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,664
I'm as frustrated as many with how UA handles things, however, UA probably assumes people like me will make a last minute cancellation, as I did early this morning (client emailed late last night that our meeting was no longer needed).
I had cleared at the 96 hr mark for DEN-xxx, and for my return I also cleared at the 96 hr mark for xxx-DEN-COS.
It's rare that I get upgraded for every segment of a trip so far in advance, so I knew the trip was cursed by yesterday morning!
I had cleared at the 96 hr mark for DEN-xxx, and for my return I also cleared at the 96 hr mark for xxx-DEN-COS.
It's rare that I get upgraded for every segment of a trip so far in advance, so I knew the trip was cursed by yesterday morning!
Aug 1, 2016, 2:27 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: All of them, UA-Plat, 1MM*G
Posts: 881
I doubt that there is any perfect solution to this issue. While I understand the tight spots that premature CPUs may lead to, when I get a CPU ahead of time it allows me to make better decisions as to what baggage I decide to check and whether to eat (or drink) before the flight or buy and carry on a sandwich. Finding out at the gate that I have been upgraded, while always welcome, would have been more welcome if I had been notified the night before.
Aug 1, 2016, 2:43 pm
#82
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,175
I've caught myself wondering if United could be more proactive with the VDB/downgrade approach -- e.g. right now they ask at kiosk check-in (sometimes) if you'd be willing to take a later flight. What if they let you "name your price" on the PNR at any time between ticketing and departure... a reverse auction of sorts... where United gives you a delay window (your new flight would depart between X and Y after your scheduled flight/you're guaranteed an E+ W/M/A) and you tell them what the minimum you'd be willing to accept to either take a later flight or a downgrade is. If the situation arises, United "sells" lowest to highest.
Aug 1, 2016, 2:44 pm
#83
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 6,484
Ideally, UA's algorithms would take into account many more factors about a flight's likelihood to need F space, such as:
-- historical adjacent flight cancellation / downgauge rate
-- "realtime" adjacent flight F availability to assist overflow
-- upcoming known weather issues
-- upcoming known aircraft maintenance issues
Basically, everything impacting how many people on full F might need to be reaccommodated. So that just the right number of seats can be held back, and not more, so that upgraders can legitimately be given benefits too.
-- historical adjacent flight cancellation / downgauge rate
-- "realtime" adjacent flight F availability to assist overflow
-- upcoming known weather issues
-- upcoming known aircraft maintenance issues
Basically, everything impacting how many people on full F might need to be reaccommodated. So that just the right number of seats can be held back, and not more, so that upgraders can legitimately be given benefits too.