cyborg

deleted

rmadisonwi

Not this crap again. Do you really think UA would go all the way through to boarding a plane, with a crew, and cancel the flight, stranding passengers and having crews out of position (there's a crew in AMS that needs to get home), just because it's lightly booked in economy?

It's the middle of winter. There are numerous threads on here about empty flights to/from Europe. If UA was going to cancel the flight due to loads, they would have done it weeks or months ago, not after everybody has boarded.

Why do people still think cancellations due to low loads happen? It's been debunked a hundred times on here.

JHake10

Low cargo load, cancel flight

TheTakeOffRush

Hmm. Chalk it up to noobness, but I didn't realize carriers don't cancel for low load factor. Seems like it might sometimes be worthwhile, i.e. if the costs of canceling (?DOT fee?, pax rebooking, +/-repositioning costs) are less than the costs of flying empty.

And given UA's love for TOD upgrades and other Last Minute Revenue Shenanigans, why would we think they'd cancel as early as weeks or months ahead?

Dubious.

Eastbay1K

0946/12feb
f iad/etd 830p l02.05 late inbound crew
f ams/eta 943a l01.38

JBord

Because that plane needs to reach its destination where it likely has a full flight waiting for its next leg. Often more expensive to not be where it's supposed to be. You mention repositioning but if you're going to do that, better to fly with even one passenger.

doobierw

Well.....a few thoughts on this. First of all, you weren't kicked off the plane. You were deplaned because they didn't have the required crew, and there are all sorts of time issues and FAA deals about holding people on planes for hours on end. The story that makes the news is when you are held on the plane for hours and not allowed to get off. The story that doesn't make the news is when you are allowed to get back off the plane and allowed to go get dinner, etc.
Second: The crew doesn't get paid while the door is open, and they often don't like to be responsible for passengers needs/wants/safety issues while they are not being paid. At some point in a delay the Ops Manager/gate agent/lead flight attendant....will ask the question on whether or not the pax should be deplaned.
Third: One of the pilots didn't show up. Not sure of the reason why, but a missing crewmember is often 'discovered' about an hour or so prior to departure. At that point, contact is attempted and they determine if a replacement is needed or not. If so, they tag one of the crewmembers who is sitting reserve duty.....on a two hour callout. The timeline for launching the plane becomes a bit clearer (and also the requirement to deplane the pax....not kick them off).
Fourth: As previously pointed out, planes aren't cancelled for low loads. That aircraft is scheduled to rotate to AMS, thence somewhere else. Keeping it in Dulles for low loads only mucks up stuff down the road for a day or two. It truly is better to keep that plane moving on it's flow than scrub it for low loads.

You were deplaned. The only time you can say you got 'kicked off' a flight is probably if law enforcement is part of your official welcoming party when the door opens.

DRW

Often1

The whole story makes little sense. "Kicked off?"

Sounds like UA deplaned the pax under the DOT tarmac delay rules as it is required to do.

Cancelling a flight to the EU for a light load makes little sense because all those folks at AMS are going to be due EC 261/2004 compensation of EUR 600 each for the knock on delay, and that gets expensive.

Sounds like about 15% of the true story here.

Loren Pechtel

Something to keep in mind: When they find themselves short of resources (birds, crew or even departure slots) they often have some choice in what they cancel. Is it not surprising that in such cases they'll choose to cancel the flight that causes the least disruption? You would expect low-load flights to get cancelled more than high-load flights even without anything nefarious going on.

Exleftseat

Happened to me at LAX January 2015. Captain walked off the plane, we sat for about 30 minutes before the GA came and ordered us off the plane. Ruined our anniversary trip to HKG. I have some wishes for him, for sure. Nothing on the good side.

ILUV767

Do you know the reason the Captain walked off the plane? Usually its a very very good reason he or she walks off the plane. You probably don't want to go if the Captain doesn't want to go.

Hipplewm

Captain complained engine was making noise, we are currently looking for a new captain

Exleftseat

He had been sitting at LAS for 3-4 hours before LAX opened due to foggy conditions. Upon very late arrival at LAX and during pax boarding for the continuation of the flight to SFO he called the Union chap and they walked off the plane together. The 2nd officer stayed as did the rest of the crew, but GA ordered us off the plane. No crew member said it directly, but you could read between the lines that this particular captain was an odd case. Again, I wish him nothing good. And trust me, I rarely feel this way. We were unable to make our HKG connection at SFO and had to cancel out flight and were basically stranded at LAX. UA refunded our tickets but we were on our own from then on.

Doc Savage

I think I'd be looking for a new plane if I were you.

If a pilot doesn't want to fly on a particular aircraft, neither do I. But YMMV.

ILUV767

He was probably out of allowable duty. Sometimes the Captain and first officer are on different trip pairings. A long sit often causes someone to be out of allowable duty. The call may have been to crew scheduling to verify or maybe to the union to very interpretation of the rules.

He may have been fatigued (a four hour sit can be very fatiguing for flight crews) and was no longer fit for duty. Each pilot must certify that they are fit for duty prior to the departure of each flight. Only the individual crew member can make that determination. Fatigue calls are handled in a very specific manner and are reviewed by multiple parties.

Odd case Captain or not, without knowing what was going through his mind, it is not fair to judge his actions. I highly doubt he was out to ruin your trip. The consequences of flying fatigued can be very very fatal. It could have also been a crew refusal of the aircraft for some reason. It isn't fair to hold it against the captain without knowing the exact reason he didn't fly the flight.