View Poll Results: Is the change to early boarding for families w/children 2 or under a good move by UA?
Like the change and it will improve boarding time
72
9.68%
Like the change but it will not improve boarding time
67
9.01%
Dislike the change but it will improve boarding time
16
2.15%
Dislike the change and it will not improve boarding time
454
61.02%
Could support a different change and it will improve boarding time
23
3.09%
Could support a different change but it will not improve boarding time
22
2.96%
Neutral but it will improve boarding times
15
2.02%
Neutral but it will not improve boarding times
75
10.08%
Voters: 744. You may not vote on this poll
Reintroducing Early Boarding for Families with Children
Feb 2, 2016, 10:12 pm
#301
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,023
I think that is the biggest frustration. By no means do they have to individually respond to me, but they could have responded on this thread - even if it was an acknowledgement. You don't normally get this much conversation and just completely go radio silent on your customers like this. That is just poor customer service. It is not fair of UA to just use this board to announce something and leverage it as an aspect of social media and then just quit the game right after they post. If you engage your audience and basically open the lines of communication, you have to be prepared to communicate back. If they are telling us they are going to do a better job of customer service and communicating with us, then this situation is not quite holding up to that.
Pretty frustrating that United seemed to be getting a clue and then they revert to ham-handed, shallow-thought decision making. I really wish UA would listen more to their more frequent flyers. Every time abuse is witnessed and allowed by UA gate staff, they will have dozens of people looking on with reactions ranging from annoyance to seething anger. Good way to forge a positive relationship!
The policy looks like it has been set and UA doesn't see an upside to try to convince us that their reasoning isn't the bullstuff it is.
Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Feb 2, 2016 at 10:18 pm
Feb 2, 2016, 10:53 pm
#302
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
I'm not a fan of the decision either but except for a few markets (leisure for most,) I think the majority of you are blowing this way out of perportion. Excluding the nightmare of MCO or other beach destination, I would bet that the quantity of families with children under 3 is a a few percent. If you travel often to MCO, o any beach/cruise destination, those numbers will be much greater, But I average around 1 infant on most RJs I board. During Christmas and other holidays where people with kids travel together, it shoots up, but for 85% of the year, the volumes are consistently low.
The sky is NOT falling.
By the way, an echo to the fact that the opinion of FT is a microcosm of reality, I can say that when I do turn away either a) military NOT in uniform from pre-boarding or B) families with small children from doing it, I get jeers from most of boarding groups 1 and 2, who have consistently lined up blocking the disabled and GS from getting thru to preboard. If FT was a true sample of those in groups 1 and 2, I would say, that a) they are not, and b) most sympathize with families, and military not in uniform.
FT isn't a representative sample of frequent flyers, it is a sample of flyers whose spare time revolves around airline status and it's perks. Most "road warriors" use their status when necessary, and then don't think about it until their next flight is being booked. It doesn't define most people who fly frequently and they aren't bothered by 30 extra seconds of waiting a couple of times per week.
Sorry to be harsh, but these are the facts as I see them. YMMV
The sky is NOT falling.
By the way, an echo to the fact that the opinion of FT is a microcosm of reality, I can say that when I do turn away either a) military NOT in uniform from pre-boarding or B) families with small children from doing it, I get jeers from most of boarding groups 1 and 2, who have consistently lined up blocking the disabled and GS from getting thru to preboard. If FT was a true sample of those in groups 1 and 2, I would say, that a) they are not, and b) most sympathize with families, and military not in uniform.
FT isn't a representative sample of frequent flyers, it is a sample of flyers whose spare time revolves around airline status and it's perks. Most "road warriors" use their status when necessary, and then don't think about it until their next flight is being booked. It doesn't define most people who fly frequently and they aren't bothered by 30 extra seconds of waiting a couple of times per week.
Sorry to be harsh, but these are the facts as I see them. YMMV
Last edited by fastair; Feb 3, 2016 at 6:57 am
Feb 2, 2016, 11:28 pm
#303
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
The fact remains, this was a controversial decision, poorly thought out, and the implementation will be a mess as gate agents allow "toddlers" as old as 16 board with their parents - as repeated upthread, places like MCO will be ground zero in the upcoming Boarding Wars, and if you think elite customers are "entitled", just wait until mobs of Disboard card-carrying soccermoms start shoving the entire G1 line out of their way with their middle and high school aged kids in tow, or just mowing everyone down with their strollers.
I traveled for a good number of years as a PremEx and 1K before I had kids, several years as a PremEx and 1K when I had kids eligible for preboarding, and now as a 1K with kids who are too old for preboarding.
Never did I find myself overly inconvenienced or materially disadvantaged by reason of families preboarding with children.
I've found the boarding process to be far worse after they did away with preboarding of families, i.e., it is atrocious whether families preboard or not.
I did, however, take advantage of preboarding when my kids were little, particularly because we traveled with car seats or special seat-belt straps that required time and room to maneuver and install. There's no way to install a large car seat in a window or center seat when the other seat(s) in the seatset are occupied. If there was someone already seated when we arrived, they were basically forced to stand-up if they wanted to avoid being accidentally struck with a car seat.
This thread is now 21 pages full of people whose principal complaint with this policy is that they don't feel as special as they used to be, because they might be the 15th or 16th person to board, instead of the 6th or 8th. Who are the spoiled children now?
Meanwhile, this is a real tangible benefit to the families that are getting to preboard.
If you're based in MCO or fly out of there regularly, you've got a real grievance. I do feel bad for you, because this policy change will really, truly suck for you. For others, this is the worst sort of DYKWIA.
Greg
Feb 2, 2016, 11:50 pm
#304
Formerly known as Stephenk19
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 409
Germans tend to follow (and enforce) rules to the letter. I'm sure LH agents turn away kids who are 1-day too old. I doubt UA gate agents would.
Lufthansa originates from a land where even hoodlums stand on the right side of escalators and only drive in the passing lane when they actually need to pass (amazing, no?). So there's really no comparing them with a U.S. carrier.
Lufthansa originates from a land where even hoodlums stand on the right side of escalators and only drive in the passing lane when they actually need to pass (amazing, no?). So there's really no comparing them with a U.S. carrier.
I do not know how LH manages the process well for their flights. Maybe UA can ask them, assuming they are not on strike that week.
Feb 2, 2016, 11:59 pm
#305
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 663
I just emailed 1K voice this. Let's see what response I get.
I just heard about the changes taking effect on 2/15/16 where families will be allowed to board first. I find this unacceptable. I have been loyal to United for years but this might make me consider choosing another airline without a similar policy and here is why:
1. Families take a long time. This will delay boarding. Screaming, bratty children should be last and not first.
2. They will put their bags in First class and no one will enforce this policy. I fly almost always in First and I will be beyond aggravated if a coach passenger's bag is in the overhead above me.
3. This will be abused. Teenagers will be considered "families" and will be boarding first. Gate agents are not going to delay boarding to argue with passengers over children's ages.
4. Loyalty. What is the point of paying for a premium cabin or getting status? Anyone can just get someone pregnant, pop out a child, and then preboard. It is not something that should be recognized and given a privilege. Military and the disabled deserve the time for their service to this country or genuine need.
This needs to change before it starts and First class, Global Services, and 1K need to board before them.
I am very disappointed by this change. This might be the worst news to come out of the merger overall. I hope that enough people write to complain and that United changes course.
I just heard about the changes taking effect on 2/15/16 where families will be allowed to board first. I find this unacceptable. I have been loyal to United for years but this might make me consider choosing another airline without a similar policy and here is why:
1. Families take a long time. This will delay boarding. Screaming, bratty children should be last and not first.
2. They will put their bags in First class and no one will enforce this policy. I fly almost always in First and I will be beyond aggravated if a coach passenger's bag is in the overhead above me.
3. This will be abused. Teenagers will be considered "families" and will be boarding first. Gate agents are not going to delay boarding to argue with passengers over children's ages.
4. Loyalty. What is the point of paying for a premium cabin or getting status? Anyone can just get someone pregnant, pop out a child, and then preboard. It is not something that should be recognized and given a privilege. Military and the disabled deserve the time for their service to this country or genuine need.
This needs to change before it starts and First class, Global Services, and 1K need to board before them.
I am very disappointed by this change. This might be the worst news to come out of the merger overall. I hope that enough people write to complain and that United changes course.
I never really knew what Smi/J meant by "over entitled elites" before this....
What a letter!
1. No, families typically are in the back of the bus. The get on, move back, and out of your hair, since you fly in First.
2. No, they will put their bags in the closest spot to their seat, since the child will inevitably need several items that have been packed away.
3. No, it wont take much at all for a GA to say "under two only!" Three year olds may get away with this crime, but teens ... No.
4. Yes! I suspect there will be a dramatic increase in the birth rate when kettles realize that they can get away with this. Pop, pop, pop!
FYI, it's not recognition and privilege, it's nearly necessity.
(And, just slightly off topic, exactly why should perfectly able military personnel jump the line? How about Cops? Firefighters? Teachers? )
If this is " the worst news to come out of the merger overall" ... well, you and I have slightly different priorities.
Enjoyed this thread, but didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Feb 3, 2016, 1:31 am
#306
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: where lions are led by donkeys...
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 20,343
The proof of the pudding.....
Feb 3, 2016, 5:50 am
#307
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Holy crap, now I get it!
I never really knew what Smi/J meant by "over entitled elites" before this....
What a letter!
1. No, families typically are in the back of the bus. The get on, move back, and out of your hair, since you fly in First.
2. No, they will put their bags in the closest spot to their seat, since the child will inevitably need several items that have been packed away.
3. No, it wont take much at all for a GA to say "under two only!" Three year olds may get away with this crime, but teens ... No.
4. Yes! I suspect there will be a dramatic increase in the birth rate when kettles realize that they can get away with this. Pop, pop, pop!
FYI, it's not recognition and privilege, it's nearly necessity.
I never really knew what Smi/J meant by "over entitled elites" before this....
What a letter!
1. No, families typically are in the back of the bus. The get on, move back, and out of your hair, since you fly in First.
2. No, they will put their bags in the closest spot to their seat, since the child will inevitably need several items that have been packed away.
3. No, it wont take much at all for a GA to say "under two only!" Three year olds may get away with this crime, but teens ... No.
4. Yes! I suspect there will be a dramatic increase in the birth rate when kettles realize that they can get away with this. Pop, pop, pop!
FYI, it's not recognition and privilege, it's nearly necessity.
1. I mainly fly in the back of the bus too. 90% of the time when I don't buy F.
2. Their seat is next to mine. Sat next to a crying baby on Monday ORD-AUS.
3. Maybe. I agree it won't be teens.
4. It's not necessity. It's worked fine for years. UA is going to need to start boarding earlier now at leisure destinations.
"Over-entitled" has become a way to name-call and demean anyone who disagrees with UA.
All I ask as someone who flies UA typically between 70-90 flights per year is that I get E+ when available, and I get my bag up near my seat so I can get to my meeting on time or home a little faster after a really long day. I see this change as threatening the latter. And if they don't board earlier to accommodate it, I have less chance of getting where I'm going on time.
Boarding before once a year vacationers, whether they have children or not, was a privilege UA provided me based on being a loyal customer. Now they're changing it. Over-entitled is asking for things one doesn't deserve or didn't earn. Reminds me a little of the people who, over the last few years, ive observed asking if they could board early because they have small children.
Feb 3, 2016, 6:37 am
#308
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,236
Here's an idea. Since you're allowed to board with someone with a higher boarding group, just find a young mother with a couple young children and offer to carry some of her bags/car seats, so you can board when she does. Then on the plane, drop the bags at the divider between F and Y, take your seat, and get to work. Everyone wins! (That's assuming you don't get tackled by other passengers in the boarding area and led away in handcuffs.)
Feb 3, 2016, 6:45 am
#309
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,509
Here's an idea. Since you're allowed to board with someone with a higher boarding group, just find a young mother with a couple young children and offer to carry some of her bags/car seats, so you can board when she does. Then on the plane, drop the bags at the divider between F and Y, take your seat, and get to work. Everyone wins! (That's assuming you don't get tackled by other passengers in the boarding area and led away in handcuffs.)
Feb 3, 2016, 6:49 am
#310
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Over time, three things will happen:
1. The change results in higher revenues and profit margins, which means the change was ultimately beneficial for shareholders and will continue in its correct form.
2. Enough paid F fares defect to competitors along with some Elite attrition to decrease avg rev/pax, where the policy will be reversed, again.
3. No effect on avg rev/pax. In this case, it would be prudent to keep the policy, if only for PR purposes.
In my estimation, for the paid F business traveler, it makes to sense to fly UA when traveling with young children, but opt for more "business friendly" carriers in any other scenario.
Let's see how this plays out.
1. The change results in higher revenues and profit margins, which means the change was ultimately beneficial for shareholders and will continue in its correct form.
2. Enough paid F fares defect to competitors along with some Elite attrition to decrease avg rev/pax, where the policy will be reversed, again.
3. No effect on avg rev/pax. In this case, it would be prudent to keep the policy, if only for PR purposes.
In my estimation, for the paid F business traveler, it makes to sense to fly UA when traveling with young children, but opt for more "business friendly" carriers in any other scenario.
Let's see how this plays out.
Last edited by Visconti; Feb 3, 2016 at 9:52 am Reason: spelling
Feb 3, 2016, 7:18 am
#311
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,091
Literally laughed out loud at this one.
Feb 3, 2016, 7:26 am
#312
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
But didn't you know? Anecdotal "evidence" as to the relative numbers of elites year over year based on upgrades and boarding group lines are bunk, but anecdotal evidence regarding the pain and suffering caused to high elites by crying babies, entitled and indifferent parents, and obnoxious and boisterous kids are true and incontrovertible facts that apparently happen every other flight, particularly that one time you absolutely must get some work done and some poor schlub with a stroller, carseat, diaper bag, and a herd of 5 children, a nanny, and grandparents are slowing you down and costing you a million dollar deal.
Which is more entitled behavior? Seriously?
Feb 3, 2016, 7:41 am
#313
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,091
Well, I suppose this person would have a Million reasons just as important as the parents with children to board the plane early, right? Herein lies the difference. The former anticipating his needs will pay the cost for F, while the latter expects it as a courtesy free of charge.
Which is more entitled behavior? Seriously?
Which is more entitled behavior? Seriously?
And, as a rule, I'd say that FT'ers are far more entitled than your average elite or parent traveling with kids.
At the end of the day, we just like to hear ourselves type. Randall Munroe had it right about us.
Feb 3, 2016, 7:46 am
#314
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 362
My kids are older now, but I certainly went through many years travelling with kids under 2. Frankly, pre-boarding was the last thing we ever wanted to do. Much better to hang out in the relative comfort of the airport for as long as possible, before getting the kids cooped up in a thin metal tube.
Feb 3, 2016, 7:50 am
#315
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Programs: UA-1Kmm, AA-EX Plt mm-, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 1,093
But that is exactly something UA fails to monetize compared to competitors. It's definitely something that drives purchase decisions and makes the life of road warrior slightly more tolerable.