Feb 16, 2016, 6:52 pm
Last edit by: findark
Table 1: United First fare differential versus same fare in United Economy
x indicates that there is no normal nonstop service between the city pair. Up to two transfers (connections) are free in each direction.
‡ indicates there is no /UPDI fare published for this route. Amount is the difference between lowest available UP fare and current Economy (lowest), provided for reference.
-- indicates United does not publish a fare for this city pair.
Table 1.5: United First fare differential as a function of flight distance (partly speculation)
Table 3: Minimum fare class with matched United First fare
- indicates no /UPDI fare is published for the route
‡ indicates the minimum matched fare is also the minimum published fare
* indicates that there is a lower, unmatched fare with the same basis letter as the lowest matched fare
The United Economy booking code hierarchy is: Y B M E U H Q V W S T L K G N
Code:
lax | 99 --
sea | 129 129 --
den | 129 129 159 --
dfw | 159 159 199x 129 --
msp | 199 199 159x 129 129x --
iah | 199 159 199 129 79 159 --
ord | 199 199 199 129 129 99 129 --
atl | 249 199x 249x 159 129x 129 129 129 --
iad | 299 249 249 159 159 129 159 129 129 --
ewr | 460‡ 451‡ 299 199 159 159 159 129 129 79 --
fll | 299 249x 299x 199 159x 159x 129 159 -- 129 159x --
bos | 299 299x 299x 199 199x 159x 199 129 129x 99 79 159x
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
sfo lax sea den dfw msp iah ord atl iad ewr fll
‡ indicates there is no /UPDI fare published for this route. Amount is the difference between lowest available UP fare and current Economy (lowest), provided for reference.
-- indicates United does not publish a fare for this city pair.
Table 1.5: United First fare differential as a function of flight distance (partly speculation)
Code:
total distance fare differential
min max ($)
------------------------------------
299 79
300 499 99
500 999 129
1000 1499 159
1500 1999 199
2000 2399 249
2400 299
Code:
lax | K -
sea | K K -
den | K K K -
dfw | K K L K -
msp | K‡ K L K K -
iah | L‡ K* K‡ K K‡ T‡ -
ord | L K* L‡ L K* K* K -
atl | K K L‡ K K K‡ K K -
iad | T‡ K* L‡ K‡ K K* K K K -
ewr | - - K K K K‡ K K* K* Q -
fll | K K L K K K K K - K K -
bos | K* L‡ L K L T K K L K K L
---------------------------------------------------------------
sfo lax sea den dfw msp iah ord atl iad ewr fll
‡ indicates the minimum matched fare is also the minimum published fare
* indicates that there is a lower, unmatched fare with the same basis letter as the lowest matched fare
The United Economy booking code hierarchy is: Y B M E U H Q V W S T L K G N
A Comprehensive Look at Domestic First Class Monetization (FCM) on United
Apr 18, 2016, 1:59 am
#92
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,611
That price is TOD territory; great for the lucky flyer receiving the offer and bad for any United elite hoping to upgrade. Personally, I think what a flyer pays for the original coach fare is (or should be) irrelevant to the flyer's first class purchase decision or United pricing strategy -- unless United wishes to be completely transparent about buy-ups from expensive coach tickets.
Apr 18, 2016, 5:22 pm
#93
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
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Apr 27, 2016, 1:27 am
#94
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boulder, CO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 120
This is an amazing thread, thanks findark for all the info!
I'm now trying to figure out what on earth the website is doing. I have a trip coming up May 20. Full itinerary is:
SFO-IAD May 20. Fare code S.
ROA-SFO (via IAD) May 31. Fare code W.
Total round trip fare was $569.70.
Taking just the first flight as an example. If I price it right now, the one way price is $372. The first class fare is $671 -- which is exactly $299 more, the differential in this thread. So far so good. It reports the first class fare books into Z.
Yet, if I go into manage my reservation and click "redeem upgrade" OR go in to change my seat, it's offering me an upgrade to First for $752. Needless to say, this seems nonsense, as I could buy a whole new ticket in First for less.
I would expect the upgrade to be priced at the difference between my fare and the $671. Any ideas on what's going on here? I'm almost wondering if the website isn't seeing the Z fare, because technically it's a "business class" fare or something, and is charging me the differential to A? Or maybe just because this is a "prime time" SFO-IAD flight (the 948am on a Friday) so it's just not allowing the upgrade into Z?
In further oddities, it doesn't offer an upgrade at all on the return flight individually, but does offer to upgrade the whole itinerary for $1400. Go figure.
I'm now trying to figure out what on earth the website is doing. I have a trip coming up May 20. Full itinerary is:
SFO-IAD May 20. Fare code S.
ROA-SFO (via IAD) May 31. Fare code W.
Total round trip fare was $569.70.
Taking just the first flight as an example. If I price it right now, the one way price is $372. The first class fare is $671 -- which is exactly $299 more, the differential in this thread. So far so good. It reports the first class fare books into Z.
Yet, if I go into manage my reservation and click "redeem upgrade" OR go in to change my seat, it's offering me an upgrade to First for $752. Needless to say, this seems nonsense, as I could buy a whole new ticket in First for less.
I would expect the upgrade to be priced at the difference between my fare and the $671. Any ideas on what's going on here? I'm almost wondering if the website isn't seeing the Z fare, because technically it's a "business class" fare or something, and is charging me the differential to A? Or maybe just because this is a "prime time" SFO-IAD flight (the 948am on a Friday) so it's just not allowing the upgrade into Z?
In further oddities, it doesn't offer an upgrade at all on the return flight individually, but does offer to upgrade the whole itinerary for $1400. Go figure.
Apr 27, 2016, 4:25 am
#95
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: HKG • Ex SFO, NYC
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Marriott Amb; Hyatt Globalist; Shangri-la Diamond; IHG SpireAmb; Hilton D; Accor G
Posts: 3,319
This is an amazing thread, thanks findark for all the info!
I'm now trying to figure out what on earth the website is doing. I have a trip coming up May 20. Full itinerary is:
SFO-IAD May 20. Fare code S.
ROA-SFO (via IAD) May 31. Fare code W.
Total round trip fare was $569.70.
Taking just the first flight as an example. If I price it right now, the one way price is $372. The first class fare is $671 -- which is exactly $299 more, the differential in this thread. So far so good. It reports the first class fare books into Z.
Yet, if I go into manage my reservation and click "redeem upgrade" OR go in to change my seat, it's offering me an upgrade to First for $752. Needless to say, this seems nonsense, as I could buy a whole new ticket in First for less.
I would expect the upgrade to be priced at the difference between my fare and the $671. Any ideas on what's going on here? I'm almost wondering if the website isn't seeing the Z fare, because technically it's a "business class" fare or something, and is charging me the differential to A? Or maybe just because this is a "prime time" SFO-IAD flight (the 948am on a Friday) so it's just not allowing the upgrade into Z?
In further oddities, it doesn't offer an upgrade at all on the return flight individually, but does offer to upgrade the whole itinerary for $1400. Go figure.
I'm now trying to figure out what on earth the website is doing. I have a trip coming up May 20. Full itinerary is:
SFO-IAD May 20. Fare code S.
ROA-SFO (via IAD) May 31. Fare code W.
Total round trip fare was $569.70.
Taking just the first flight as an example. If I price it right now, the one way price is $372. The first class fare is $671 -- which is exactly $299 more, the differential in this thread. So far so good. It reports the first class fare books into Z.
Yet, if I go into manage my reservation and click "redeem upgrade" OR go in to change my seat, it's offering me an upgrade to First for $752. Needless to say, this seems nonsense, as I could buy a whole new ticket in First for less.
I would expect the upgrade to be priced at the difference between my fare and the $671. Any ideas on what's going on here? I'm almost wondering if the website isn't seeing the Z fare, because technically it's a "business class" fare or something, and is charging me the differential to A? Or maybe just because this is a "prime time" SFO-IAD flight (the 948am on a Friday) so it's just not allowing the upgrade into Z?
In further oddities, it doesn't offer an upgrade at all on the return flight individually, but does offer to upgrade the whole itinerary for $1400. Go figure.
Apr 28, 2016, 12:35 am
#96
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,417
You should always be able to call in to reissue your ticket for the difference between fare paid and lowest available premium ticket. Mention GG BUYUP and/or HUCA as needed to avoid the change fee.
Sep 17, 2017, 10:33 am
#97
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 45
I learned a lot from this post, and for a long time it seemed to be extremely accurate. In the last few months, though, I've noticed that there is a lot more variation in fare differentials between economy and first. For example, I was looking for flights between ORD and SFO on 11/10 yesterday. While many of the differentials remain at $200, a bunch are also higher. There seems to be a lot of variation in whether P fares are available.
Specifically, for the 6am ORD-SFO, an L fare is $169 and a P fare is $368. For 8:15, though, even though it is still at F9, P is not available, and the lowest available first fare is a Z for $500.
All 11 nonstops from ORD to SFO are at $169 for economy, all L fares. For first, six are at the $200 differential. Three are at a $331 differential and two are at a $543 differential. For many of those higher differentials, the flights are still at F9 (sometimes F8). So it's not as though the cabin is full.
Findark, I don't know how this fits with the consistency you observed originally. I have a flight from ORD to BOS every year around the same time, and my sense this year was that it was harder to find the $130 buyup this year than last (I pay a lot of attention to the differentials as my employer pays the coach fare and I typically buy up when I can get the standard differential that you found). Obviously this is just my personal experience, though, and I haven't provided much data, so I'd be curious to know whether you think things have been changing a bit or if you feel that the system has been consistent.
Specifically, for the 6am ORD-SFO, an L fare is $169 and a P fare is $368. For 8:15, though, even though it is still at F9, P is not available, and the lowest available first fare is a Z for $500.
All 11 nonstops from ORD to SFO are at $169 for economy, all L fares. For first, six are at the $200 differential. Three are at a $331 differential and two are at a $543 differential. For many of those higher differentials, the flights are still at F9 (sometimes F8). So it's not as though the cabin is full.
Findark, I don't know how this fits with the consistency you observed originally. I have a flight from ORD to BOS every year around the same time, and my sense this year was that it was harder to find the $130 buyup this year than last (I pay a lot of attention to the differentials as my employer pays the coach fare and I typically buy up when I can get the standard differential that you found). Obviously this is just my personal experience, though, and I haven't provided much data, so I'd be curious to know whether you think things have been changing a bit or if you feel that the system has been consistent.
Sep 17, 2017, 11:22 am
#98
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
All 11 nonstops from ORD to SFO are at $169 for economy, all L fares. For first, six are at the $200 differential. Three are at a $331 differential and two are at a $543 differential. For many of those higher differentials, the flights are still at F9 (sometimes F8). So it's not as though the cabin is full.
Sep 17, 2017, 1:09 pm
#99
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Anywhere but home
Programs: UA 1K/MM, DL GM/MM, HH Dia, PC Plat, MR Gold, ALL Sil,
Posts: 4,552
Also, a recent upgrade from SFO to KOA was $309 on a 739.
Sep 17, 2017, 1:42 pm
#100
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Sep 17, 2017, 4:14 pm
#101
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
P fare availability two months out SAN-EWR seem to be a pretty rare exception right now, even on the usual 737s.
Sep 17, 2017, 4:39 pm
#102
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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I learned a lot from this post, and for a long time it seemed to be extremely accurate. In the last few months, though, I've noticed that there is a lot more variation in fare differentials between economy and first. For example, I was looking for flights between ORD and SFO on 11/10 yesterday. While many of the differentials remain at $200, a bunch are also higher. There seems to be a lot of variation in whether P fares are available.
Specifically, for the 6am ORD-SFO, an L fare is $169 and a P fare is $368. For 8:15, though, even though it is still at F9, P is not available, and the lowest available first fare is a Z for $500.
Specifically, for the 6am ORD-SFO, an L fare is $169 and a P fare is $368. For 8:15, though, even though it is still at F9, P is not available, and the lowest available first fare is a Z for $500.
The differential model exists so that restricting Economy inventory also impacts the First price, but it doesn't stop them from directly capacity controlling P and Z fares.
Sep 17, 2017, 6:26 pm
#103
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 45
This is consistent with the differential price model. Nowhere does it guarantee that First is exactly more than Economy by the differential; just that it will be at least that much more. In the cases you cite, UA is using the primary inventory (F/A/Z/P) to drive up the price of a ticket in First based on loads in First.
The differential model exists so that restricting Economy inventory also impacts the First price, but it doesn't stop them from directly capacity controlling P and Z fares.
The differential model exists so that restricting Economy inventory also impacts the First price, but it doesn't stop them from directly capacity controlling P and Z fares.
Sep 17, 2017, 7:04 pm
#104
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
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Posts: 56,461
I've seen other posts in the past where people commented on the low cost of buying up to first, but perhaps United is starting to swing back in the other direction. That's why I was curious whether anybody else was noticing something similar with a change in the average price differences between economy and first, or if I'm just imagining things.
There's now a $188 first class (P) fare SFO-LAX, which I expect will drop even further, since DL is currently offering a $138 fare on the same route.
This creates a real conundrum for those of who are supposed to buy flexible fares. I can now buy a U on SFO-SAN, then change it to a P a day or two prior to departure and get a refund of $21.