CPS89

All really good information to know. Thank you so much for sharing.

Just so I know going forward, do you know the priority order they go in to determine invol downgrade? CPU, status, fare class, etc?

cfischer

If the ticket was not properly issued that UA would have not been able to offer ANY seat IMHO. So there was a flight coupon for that segment in J ... UA didn't have a seat ... I think this is pretty cut and dry and can't see UA arguing over this to be honest.

jsloan

The priority order is supposed to be status and then fare class; however, based on reports it appears that agents often just do whatever’s easiest — usually whoever doesn’t have a seat assignment — or may add their own rules like you suggested, such as downgrading the most recent CPUs.

They are supposed to solicit volunteers first, as they did in your case.

lincolnjkc

IME, IROPS protection is (should) always be booked as the "prime" flight (e.g. UA927). If LH did the sell entry as the codeshare flight that could explain selling phantom inventory.

While the systems are antiquated, this is more of an example of the "two generals problem" and the challenges in implementing a resilient, responsive, worldwide system -- if every transaction needed to obtain an absolute lock on inventory from the beginning of a transaction through a final sell you'd be paying a fairly massive penalty in resilience and speed where most of the time that doesn't matter (e.g. Y9 and trying to sell 1 seat) -- though of course it can be problematic in cases where J=1 and multiple people are trying to sell J.

When an airline issues a boarding pass for a IET flight coupon they are in essence doing it on behalf of the operating carrier, so if a BP for that flight was issued that strongly suggests that confirmed inventory was held at the time the BP was issued, whether that was UA or LH. Had LH completed the sell but not gotten confirmation back from the operating carrier (e.g. HK status) they shouldn't have been able to issue the BP, or to even check the coupon in... But again, if the agent sold from codeshare inventory rather than prime inventory could still be LH's fault [I've had multiple agents tell me that they weren't/aren't allowed to sell from codeshare on protection, haven't really had it come up recently so maybe the policy has changed]

Xyzzy

We are on UA47 today, FRA-IAH, and at the time of boarding we were seated in PP. About 5 minutes before departure a crew member came to our seats and told us that we were being downgraded because there was a problem with the crew rest area. It turns out they needed some J seats and they didn't want to downgrade those passengers to Y, so they downgraded them to PP and then some PP passengers to Y. Musical chairs ensued, along with claims that there ware both catering delays and an MX issues. The seating issues took about an hour to sort out and we finally left about 1:40 late.

I asked the crew about downgrade compensation and was told that I'd have to speak with an agent at the gate. When I pointed out that this was impossible because I had already boarded and they were not going to let me off to talk to the agent I was told that they would email me and that there was nothing the crew could do.

I've had several issues recently where without notice WiFi doesn't work on a long-haul UA flight (despite the crew knowing about the problem before boarding). Each time I was told to contact customer service (I wrote to 1KVoice) because there was nothing the crew could do. Are crew members punished in some way for handing out compensation? Is UA n longer handling compensation via the crew's iPhones?

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I think downgrade comp is out of the crew's scope of compensation abilities due to possible airfare calculations being involved. They pass out comp for no wifi/non-working seat/etc.

cfischer

did you upgrade to PP? Any status left on UA? Just curious why they picked you. Hope you kept your new BPs and will pursue UA for compensation. EC reg 261 applies

Flying Machine

interesting, EU 261 also applies to downgrades in cabin class? Never knew..

stevendorechester

You are entitled to 75% of the fare for that segment, if you go the EU route.

These situations are unfortunate and in my opinion airlines should be required to ask for volunteers first. A substantial voucher is all that's necessary.

Just file a claim with United. IMHO airlines should be required to pay downgrade/idb compensation on the spot before the plane is allowed to push back. You don't get paid for something you don't provide.

I don't think it would take too long to calculate the refund since the can calculate how much to upgrade in a matter of minutes.

The last time I upgraded on board ( with SWISS) the purser took my boarding pass and came back within minutes with a price after " calling it in".

Previous to that I upgraded a short segment of a Trans-Pacific flight with Air China. When I ask the agent said they will recalculate the ticket for that segment and it took five minutes. Therefore they can easily calculate a refund and issue a prepaid card.

If I can't uparade my flight and pay later the airline should not be allowed to downgrade me and pay me later.

Kacee

Except when the crew tells you to "write it in." And 1kvoice then comes back and tells you that request must be handled onboard by the inflight crew, and there's nothing they can do. It's a great system when the overriding corporate goal is not to provide any comp at all.

Flying Machine

In reality, have you had that happen to you in the past? I haven’t

Kacee

I wouldn't be writing about it if I had not experienced it:

Xyzzy

We're both 1K and used PP to upgrade. We've got our boarding passes -- both sets. I believe they upgraded 4 people who were on the waitlist for upgrades and then needed 4 J seats so they downgraded 4 of us to make room. The seatmap shows 4 empty seats in Plaris. I have no idea how they picked the 4 J passengers. I presume they picked the last few people who had been upgraded and downgraded them. The upgrade list shows three people upgraded to Polaris but with PP seat assignment. Strangely, only 3 people are left on the Polaris upgrade standby list. The other one is on the regular standby list for the flight, listed as having cleared.

Re: EC 261, does PP count as a separate class of service? If so, we should both be entitled to 75% of the ticket price for this segment.



(standby list truncated)

Flying Machine

Thank you for that. I’m going to keep a copy, in the event it ever happens to me on board I’m going to show the FA this memo. You’re helping others here, I appreciate it

jsloan

Yes, it does. As are the J passengers. UA would have saved a considerable chunk of change by downgrading people J->Y.