geo979

If the title of this thread was something like "Does anyone have any practical advice about how early I should get to the airport" or if the OP seemed clueless about what United's written rules are, then perhaps such basic and common sense advice would be of (minor) value. However, in this case it is quite obvious the OP knows full well what United's rules are and also knows United did not adhere to their own rules. So this kind of advice totally misses the point. It would be similar in value as offering up advice like "don't run with scissors" or "brush your teeth daily", etc.

LaserSailor

I sense the moderators feel the discussion of the T-15 rule and the practical arrival time is appropriately discussed here.

I certainly have treated out stations as being T-15 "arrivals" until I arrived at a gate at T-25 to find the plane had pushed.

If I can spare someone that experience, that's good.

notquiteaff

Perhaps suggest to UA then to print departure-airport specific end-of-boarding times on the boarding pass as a courtesy to passengers who don't think UA would prominently document a cut-off time and then just randomly ignore it.

Or, if you know of certain airports where this is a recurring problem, start a wiki thread and document them for the benefit of the FT community. Perhaps others will join you.

LaserSailor

Sometimes this here internet thingy makes you guys think too much.

You don't need a wiki to heed outstation advice of not pushing T-15 because the gate is next to security.

Interestingly enough, my experience at ELM is on AA and is caused by TSA, not the airline.

Baze

This coming Monday (the 22nd) I will be flying to LNK then on March 2nd I will be departing LNK. I plan on being there plenty early. Not because of this thread but because I always get to airports early even outstations.

Surftel

Not sure why you keep repeating this T-15 stuff. The OP showed up at T-21. The GA had given his seat away at at least T-25, possibly earlier.

Now the GA is lying to cover up their actions.

To a reasonable person it is clear who is in the wrong here

fastflyer

The coffee break explanation rings true. I've also noticed that outstations with long jetways will often close the flights as soon as all of the present passengers have been scanned. The gate agent can process all of the passengers in five minutes or so, as fast as the line of passengers can walk -- basically once all of the boarding cards have scanned and the pax enter the tube.

I have observed this from neighboring gates by UA at PWM. Boarding area cleared, gate agent looks around briefly and makes final call announcement at T-25, takes paperwork from printer and closes jetway door behind him. Flight is essentially dispatched at that moment, because no staff is left at the gate podium.

At PWM specifically, because the TSA is on the opposite end of the linear airport, I've often seen UA "late" arrivals (T-20 or so) walking/ running up to a closed gate.

flyersky1

A quick update that has not come sooner because the outcome is depressing and almost kafkaeske. UA CS wrote me again saying that they contacted again the LNK staff and they confirmed their previous conclusion. No reference to electronically stamped records, or checking the time I called UA customer service to report the incident, or contacting the police officer who verified TSA footage after I emailed UA his business card. Dot told me they have no power to force UA to provide individual compensation. They also indicated that they cannot summon those electronically stamped records so if I want them summoned and receive individual compensation I should turn to a small claims court. There you have it.

bocastephen

Small Claims Court is your best bet here - if you are in the right, and there is evidence to show the station staff violated policy, then sue them - depending on where you live, it's about $50 and money well spent as if you're truthful about the circumstances, you'll come out of this way ahead of that $50 investment.

The best possible outcome is UA refuses, fails or forgets to send someone to court, you win by default and get a nice judgement which you can then serve on the company at your airport with a Sheriff in tow and empty out their cash box right then and there - and if not enough cash, you can seize their aircraft and hold it until they pay up.

flyersky1

Hа ha! That outcome would be interesting. But sue them for what? IDB? Missed meetings? Psychological trauma? And would the burden be on me to show they IDB me wrongly or on them that they IDB me correctly? Thanks.

Often1

Bottom line is that there is a factual dispute here. UA disputes what OP says. Both versions cannot be true. It's clear that UA did go back and look at the records so it did not simply blow OP off. The place to test facts is in court.

This is also a good lesson for all of the Greek Chorus who constantly counsel the filing of DOT complaints. Sure DOT has a record here, but it has done nothing and has told OP that it will not do anything to enforce its own rule, which it could if it wanted to.

OP - I recall that the details may be earlier in this thread, but you might as well put them all in one place. Pull up the IDB rule and you will see that depending on the length of the actual delay you suffered, you may be entitled to collect as much as $1,350. (Do the calculations to figure it out).

There is an SCC process in all 50 states (as well as some counties & municipalities). Generally there are limits on how much you may claim and what you may claim for. Usually limited to simple actual damages, but it all varies. Take a look at the relevant SCC's website, complete the forms, pay the filing fees and off you go.

UA may simply pay, UA may never answer and default (very unlikely), UA may try to settle, or UA may remove this to federal court (which puts you in a pickle).

transportbiz

I'm not sure either. Most of the justification that the T-15 is OK for outstations or whoever to just ignore seems to be coming from those that typically argue "the rules are the rules" when people complain about something they experienced with United, where the customer is in a gray area.

On this one, those same people are arguing that the rules only apply when it's convenient to United, and the customer should adjust their behavior or risk being left behind.

transportbiz

Yeah, in SC court at least here is CA you'll have to show financial loss. It has to be rather specific, and typically out-of-pocket. Some pro-tems or visiting Judges who don't know better will award pain and suffering.

If you incurred hotel expenses, meal expenses, no-show expenses, or had to reschedule the meeting and pay additional costs, those are tangible losses. If there is a specific policy on compensation for IDB (which there is) then absolutely you can claim that. Just bring it in writing.

As to repossessing a plane, not going to happen, but for sure you can till-tap, but it'd never come to that, United would pay the judgment, if you get one. They'd have 30-days to pay, or appeal the judgment. Appeals in SC court are rare, and usually require proof a legal error in occurred.

As to United not sending someone, don't count on that. They will for sure send someone! I've seen cases for all three of the majors AA flew someone from from Charlotte, DL and UA both flew in someone from Florida. They overnighted, rented a car, I'd estimate expenses were around $400 not counting the airfare (cause I don't know how they do that). In one case the claim was for $6,000, one was for $5,000 and one was for $6,500. Max in CA is $10,000 for an individual and $5,000 if a company is the plaintiff.

As to evidence, you can subpoena documentation that shows the time stamp of the off load time. Also, you can subpoena tapes from the TSA (though that one will be tough). You can provided a printed phone record, highlighting the call to United and testify as to what that call was about. If United fails to provide the documentation they can be held in contempt. Set the court date for at least 90-days out, so you can get the subpoenas done. Most courts have a small claims adviser who can help you out, and even help you find the service process for United in your state.

bmwe92fan

If you really want to pursue this further - and if what you have said is true (which I believe bc it's happened to me too) - I will fund your trip to small claims court PM me to discuss - fortunately my whole family are attorneys - thank goodness I'm not....

bocastephen

There are piles of threads throughout FT where other people sued an airline or hotel in SCC and won (some lost, just depends on the circumstances) - it can be done, and in your case based on the facts shared so far, it *should* be done.

You need to list and rank the injuries suffered - actual financial loss, projected opportunity cost (ie, missed sales meeting, etc), emotional trauma, etc - only you know the answer to this, but a good starting point is the value of the trip plus actual financial losses plus opportunity costs (if any). Depending on your location, UA might not even show up, or the most likely scenario is once they receive the notice of suit, they will reach out to you at a higher level than CS and negotiate a fair settlement.