OliverB

Thanks for all the replies!

It sounds like I should wait and see what else opens up... I came across the following award flight through the Lufthansa Miles & More website, but it's not yet been opened up to UA for booking:


Venice (09:55) to Zurich (11:10) - LX1661
Operated by partner (Swiss?)

Zurich (13:15) to San Francisco (17:35) - LX038
Operated by Swiss International Airlines

Total travel duration: 15h40


I called UA and was told that this route will *definitely* be opened to award bookings sometime in the future, so I should probably hang tight and keep checking the site.

It sounds like sbm12's advice was pretty sound; I should just have patience and wait for more routes to open up. I was under the impression that it was best to book as soon as dates open to ensure availability for award redemption, but I guess that's not always the case if more flights and itineraries get added to the calendar.

Here's hoping the above Swiss Int'l itinerary gets offered as a Super Saver award for 30K miles... is there any way of monitoring the flight and setting alerts to notify myself of when it gets added to the award queue or do I just need to do it the old fashioned way and check the UA site each week? I know that UA hides some itineraries on affiliated SA partners like Turkish Airlines; do they do the same for Swiss? Is there a list of additional Star Alliance partners to check against UA's award flights that are consistently not covered on UA's booking site? I've discovered the Turkish flight through ANA and the Swiss flight through Miles & More. What else should I check out?

Thanks again for all the replies!

(qisu: I did see that same Turkish Air itinerary and mentioned it as a possible option)

(bearkatt: no need to fly to Houston; we can book direct to SFO on most FRA routes. The trick is getting to FRA from VCE on a schedule that compliments any FRA to SFO legs... there's no way as of yet to do it efficiently in a single booking)

(rapidex: that sounds like an interesting last resort! do you have a link to the train with sleeper car; is it a specific rail line and does it only go via Munich or other Euro cities as well?)

(bmwe92fan: I'm asking about a return ticket from Venice to the states; not the other way around, which I've already booked.)

(LarkSFO: thanks! I'll check those itineraries against UA awards and see what's available and makes the most sense - I'm trying to weigh in whether or not it'd be easier/more pleasant to spend an overnight in a hotel by VCE or another city like Milan, Vienna... even if we don't have much time to spend sightseeing. I'll wait to see what additional routes open from VCE as I'm told there will be more award flights added in the coming months)

OliverB

Good advice!

I'm going to give myself at least two solid months (until Feb) before making any decisions, as I'm hoping that a more efficient and direct itinerary opens up under UA's award bookings that would get us home smoothly by 11/01. I haven't seen it so far, but the calendar just opened up days ago to the specific dates that we're looking at. I'm sure there will be more award flights added in the coming weeks and months. I'll set a deadline for end of Feb. to book, as I don't want to be stuck paying full fare but I also want to see if something better opens up. At this point we can only afford to book on Super Saver Awards for 30K a seat anyhow, since we no longer have a stockpile of miles to use.

rapidex

Go to www.seat61.com for all the info on european trains.There is also a Venice to Vienna overnight sleeper arriving Vienna at 07:35 but it does not seem as comfortable as the Venice Munich.It might be a bit of a let down after the Gritti palace.

Getting from MUC-FRA is easy,and there are also flights MUC-USA so it might be an easy option.

Dinner at the Gritti overlooking the canal is a very pleasant experience.

OliverB

I just want to revive this thread to ask one last question because the reassurance would be of great comfort to me...

I understand that additional flights and itineraries are bound to pop up over the course of the next 6+ months, however I only have enough points to redeem at 30K saver awards. Is it a sure thing that additional routes will offer this redemption value?

I have a few options right now with various operators, primarily UA and AA (incl affiliated partner airlines), but all of which are at the compromise of convenience. In other words, I could book right now (btwn 20-30K award miles) with multiple airlines at less than ideal travel schedules, departure times, flight lengths, etc... or I could wait.

I don't want to get stuck and be forced to spend thousands of dollars for these tickets so while I understand that additional award routes will be released, my question is simply whether there is a strong likelihood that they will be redeemable at supersaver values for 30K or if those are bound to disappear quickly and may not be offered again? I'm not sure if there's a definitive answer here but I'd greatly appreciate your input.

I'm not worried about eventual award availability... I'm worried about the award redemption value. That is the one factor in determining whether I should book now or later with UA or another carrier.

Also, if given the option, would you prefer to fly UA, Lufthansa or BA on this route for roughly the same value? (I could book British through AA for only 20K miles)

Thank you all so much for your help with this!!!

sbm12

No. But as I said several times before I would not be concerned about waiting. That said, do better itineraries exist and just not have award space or are you hoping that the airlines are going to alter their schedules to make things better for you? That's not likely to happen.



What does this mean? Don't get hung up on the dollar price of the tickets in determining the value.

You will pay hundreds of dollars in cash more to fly on BA metal across the Atlantic, while saving 10,000 points. Probably not worth it IMO. Between the three in Y I typically take UA for the E+ seating space. UA & LH will also have wifi available while BA will not if that matters to you.

OliverB

What I mean is that we can only really afford to fly at less than 40K miles per ticket right now. One-way flights out of Venice are crazy expensive, so while more award itineraries are bound to open up over the next 6+ months, if they can't be redeemed for supersaver awards at 30K miles, we're screwed. We can't afford to spend 65K+ per ticket, so we'll end up paying out of pocket, which is something that I would really like to avoid.

To be clear, I'm not looking at dollar values at all. I'm simply watching the award charts and monitoring the miles redemption. There are only a handful of tickets currently offered for 30K miles. None of them are ideal, although I would certainly concede and book them if it meant paying nothing versus paying full fare ~ even if more reasonable prices eventually became avail.

I'm not expecting any of the current itineraries to change substantially. I'm just wondering if more will open up for under 65K miles redemption.

What it comes down to, is that I would *PREFER* not to have to fly out of Venice before 7am. Getting to and from the airport is a hassle; even by private boat from the dock in front of our hotel, which is what we intend to do. Most flights as of now, depart between 6:00 am and 6:30 am, which would mean arriving at the airport close to 4:00 am. That would mean leaving our hotel by 3:30 am at the latest. We would definitely want to shower and be as fresh as possible before a long int'l flight, so you can imagine what time we'd be waking up... we probably would not get to sleep at all the night before. I would really want to avoid that, as it'd put a major damper on our last night in Venice. I'd like to be able to enjoy our final evening, get a good night's sleep, and be able to show up at the airport for a reasonable time to catch a 9:00 am (or later) departure. This is the number one factor that is preventing me from booking any of the current award tickets. I'm waiting for a better schedule to open up.

The other factor is flight duration. Some flights are 17hrs and some are 30hrs. Realistically, this is not time spent in the air but the result of extremely long layovers in various cities; Vienna, Frankfurt, Paris, Copenhagen, London, etc. Many of these layovers are 13+ hr overnight stops. That would mean an additional hotel stay, which is something I'd be willing to do to avoid departing Venice at 6am. I'm hoping for a more direct route at a more reasonable hour and for a preferred redemption value (supersaver at 30K miles) - I realize this is pushing it for an award ticket and I'm probably being too picky, but that's why I'm posing these questions and seeking feedback... I'd like to know if there's any realistic possibility that this might eventually become available, and whether the likelihood is strong and should be relied upon?

Again, I understand that many more flights will get added in the coming months, but will many more get added for under 65K award bookings?

If not, I may need to just make a decision tonight with my wife, based on what itinerary would work best. Perhaps we should just alter our perspectives and take advantage of a long layover in Paris or London... What do you think?

sbm12

Okay...that's the same metric I've been using all along anyways.


Probably an hour earlier than you need to be there.

Do those itineraries exist for revenue trips? If they do not then holding out for an award is unlikely to get you anything useful. VCE flights are banked to connect to the TATL options leaving Europe in the morning. You cannot leave VCE at 9a and still catch the 10 or 11a flights to the USA; there's just not enough time in the day for that to happen.

The 65k only opens up more space on UA flights, not on the intra-Europe partners.

I think this is the best option given flight times out of VCE and your arrival requirements at home, though neither of those specific cities would be my desired choice.

aza72

I wouldn't count on more flights being added, but more seats may open up on existing flights. Now that the schedule has opened up, you can also look at revenue tickets for the R/T, which look like they are < $1,600 r/t even without a super early departure. But the way the fares are set up, it must be booked as a round trip, you can't get o/w for half the price.

If you want to hedge your bets on the award tickets, you could book something less than ideal now, and then if something better opens up pay a $75 change fee to switch to it.

OliverB

Thanks so much, sbm12!

There are definitely revenue based flights that operate on these schedules (though few and far between) but a perfect example is Venice (09:55) to Zurich (11:10) + Zurich (13:15) to San Francisco (17:35) via Swiss Air.

It's currently available to book as an award through Lufthansa but it hasn't been opened up to UA as of yet. I would love to hold out hope for this itinerary, as it seems perfect. The overal trip is under 18hrs and it's fairly direct with only one stop in Zurich. The schedule is ideal.

I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in this basket however, only to find that when it eventually does open to UA awards, it's only available to redeem for 65K+. We'd be back to square one and, depending on how long we wait for the award flight to become available, we might possibly be left with far fewer routes and options for 30K/award ticket by that point. Hence my dilemma in deciding how to go forward.

You suggest that we just book the best available award ticket that works for us right now with regards to schedule and not to have worry about the return flight anymore?

Thanks,

I would definitely be willing to pay $75/ticket change fee to take advantage of a more ideal schedule, if one were to open in future. Presumably, this applies to award bookings and not strictly revenue based ticketing?

What are your thoughts about the Lufthansa itinerary operated by Swiss Air; should I count on this opening up for 30K?

As for the r/t option, even at $1,600 (which is a decent value and reasonable fare) I would still prefer to book on award miles rather than spend the money; if I'm understanding your correctly.

jmanirish

If that's the specific flight you're set on flying - you're going to be posting here every couple of months in panic - Swiss Airlines is notoriously stingy on releasing award seats to *A partners. ZRH-SFO (and LAX) are some of the hardest to come by. Now Economy is a little less rare, but I still don't see them pop up very often. And when they do, it's often not until a few days, or even hours, until departure.

Now that said, if it does become available, it will be 30k in Y each way - there is no standard award for partner airlines - just the saver.

EDIT:
LH is usually much better about opening up Y availability. That means either of these will probably open up sometime between now and departure:

LH 333 0 VCE
10/30/16 7:40 AM FRA
10/30/16 9:10 AM 321
Daily

LH 454 0 FRA
10/30/16 10:20 AM SFO
10/30/16 2:00 PM 388
Daily
---------------------------------------
Or
LH 325 0 VCE
10/30/16 10:50 AM FRA
10/30/16 12:20 PM 321
Daily


UA 59 0 FRA
10/30/16 1:25 PM SFO
10/30/16 4:50 PM 744
Daily

OliverB

Great info and thanks so much!

Any of these would work just fine for our needs:

LH 454 0 FRA
10/30/16 10:20 AM SFO
10/30/16 2:00 PM 388
Daily
---------------------------------------
Or
LH 325 0 VCE
10/30/16 10:50 AM FRA
10/30/16 12:20 PM 321
Daily


UA 59 0 FRA
10/30/16 1:25 PM SFO
10/30/16 4:50 PM 744
Daily


Would you recommend that I wait these out and continue calling UA every week to see if there are any updates (would they automatically show up on UA's website or should I call to be safe?) or should I book a separate itinerary in the meanwhile for 30K and then hope for one of the above award tickets to open up, in which case I would pay a $75 change fee and grab it?

If I go the latter route and book something right away just to be safe, approx. how long is the turnaround for receiving points back into my acct. on a cancellation? Would I have to worry or consider that when thinking about upgrading to any of the above LH award tickets, after having already booked with UA? Could it potentially pose a problem; ie. not having enough miles to book the Lufthansa award because of processing times while waiting to receive miles back on a cancellation?

Oops, I just noticed that two of those flights seem to be Frankfurt to SFO direct... I'd only be interested in the VCE - FRA - SFO route. I wouldn't want to depart from any other European city in the a.m. regardless of the vicinity because it'd be just as much, if not more of a hassle, as an early morning 6:00 a.m. flight out of VCE (we would have to get to Frankfurt at an ungodly hour or leave the night before, which is what this dilemma is all about). There are numerous direct flights between FRA and SFO, the trick is catching one that departs VCE at a reasonable hour and connects in FRA.

This seems to be the best route:

LH 325 0 VCE
10/30/16 10:50 AM FRA
10/30/16 12:20 PM 321
Daily

I just called UA to speak with a rep and I answered my own question above re. possible cancellation and points being returned to my account.

I confused the idea of "change fee" and "cancellation fee". I get it now; I'd call and have it changed directly over the phone for a nominal $75-100 fee. This seems like the best way to go.

I'm going to book whatever looks best in the meanwhile and then aim for one of the following two itineraries, if and when they eventually open up to UA:

LH 325 0 VCE
10/30/16 10:50 AM FRA
10/30/16 12:20 PM 321

OR

LX 1661 VCE
10/30/16 09:55 AM ZRH
10/30/16 11:10 AM SFO 038


I'm guessing they probably won't show up on UA until 2-3 months before the travel date, at best... it will be nice to have backup tickets, in that case. Does everyone agree that this seems like the most sensible solution?

WineCountryUA

No one here is going to give you an answer that means anything. They may, they may not.

Award inventory appears and disappears.

One general approach is if you can find an award you could live with, book it. Then continue to look for better itins and if it come available then decide if the change fees are worth the improved itins. Now many here are exempt from award change fees which makes even a easier decision.

Waiting for the prefect itin, means you are will to forgo the trip if it never occurs. If I told you there was a 60% chance of better itin opening up, there is 40% chance it does not.

Only sure thing about waiting is the present options will most likely disappear.

OliverB

Thanks, I'm going to book something tonight, one way or the other.

I'll keep monitoring the LH and LX flights to see if they eventually open up to UA. It would definitely be worth paying the $75/person change fee to save 10+ hrs of layovers, travel time, connections, etc. It's entirely worth the added convenience and I'd pay the fee right now if I could, just to book these direct routes.

aza72

If you want to monitor the flights, you could consider subscribing to ExpertFlyer which will automatically check the flights for award space once a day and email you if anything becomes available.

OliverB

Thanks!

Would that work with the basic $4.99/month subscription?

If so, I may just do that for piece of mind.

I'm guessing the software is pretty reliable and does what it's supposed to do?


Edit: I've read that United pulled their inventory from the site; is that only true of Business and First awards?