lincolnjkc

If you're seeing what I think you're seeing, it's the symptom of a "bug" that has been a "bug" long enough (>10 years at this point) to have the enough seniority to make it a "feature".

In short, what appears to happen is when you specify a fare bucket that also corresponds to a cabin reference (e.g. "Y" - Economy Cabin/Full Fare Economy Bucket, "F" First Cabin/Full Fare First) the backend returns the lowest available fares for that cabin even if they don't come out of the specified bucket, in essence treating the "Y" as "Show me all Economy fares" rather than "Show me only fares booking into the Y bucket" and ditto for "F".

In the new "matrix" layout this also causes very odd display behavior like the Unrestricted column showing "Unavailable" even though all buckets on the flight are wide open" -- this is simply a new symptom for an old bug.

The "solution" is not to specify fare class by letter but to choose the "Unrestricted" option for the desired cabin on the search page. IME, this relatively infrequently returns the true "Full" fare (Y/F) but returns the "Discount Full Fare" (B/A) -- but I've yet to figure out a meaningful difference between B and Y or A and F, at least for domestic and transborder flying.

physioprof

You can also purchase refundable fares that are "flexible", not "unrestricted", although there is a cancellation fee to get the refund.

physioprof

I just changed a flight segment on the Web site a non-refundable fare RT itinerary, one that I had previously changed and been charged $200 change fee. I changed the outgoing leg from EWR-IAH to IAD-IAH, and only got charged $98 fare difference, but no change fee. How is that possible?

Happy

I am staring the fare rules of a ticket bought last year - I cannot find the PENALTIES section

Only see REFUNDS/CHANGE section. It has not mentioned any figure nor penalty in the whole section.

If I do not see any $ amount mentioned anywhere in the whole Fare Rules, and it said this -

CANCELLATION BEFORE DEPARTURE
Cancellation permitted
EXCHANGE
Change to first ticketed flight/Wholly unused ticket
Residual Value may be refunded or apply to purchase new ticket at current fare levels Any difference in fare /tax collected / refunded at time of ticket exchange.

The fare code is Q2UP7Y3 which seems to be used for many city pairs when one picks refundable fare.

I believe I picked the refundable fare last year when purchasing the ticket now I need to change the routing.

findark

Yes, should be refundable. The relevant sections in cat 16 (Penalties) are (from a generic fare but is the same across the board):

The excepted sections indicate:

1. The fare component may be canceled (freely).
2. There is no charge to cancel.
3. Any refund will be returned to your original form of payment (refundable).
4. Rule about combining fares on a single ticket making things more restricted.
5. The fare component may be changed (freely).
6. There is no charge to change.
7. Any refund will be returned to your original forem of payment (refundable).

Happy

THANK YOU. I do find the magic paragraphs and words (thanks for bolding them) in the PDF file of Fare Rules I saved. It is a one segment ticket therefore no complication.

The only thing bothers me is this is a ticket already changed once - the receipt is missing the magic Refundable word, but also is missing the dreaded Nonrefundable word. Call center agent did verify it was refundable at time of change. I need to change it to a trip this July but website keeps giving me error. Therefore need to call to book. I want to make sure the refundability of it so rebooking would not incur fee. The intended trip is between $20 to $40 cheaper than the existing ticket. The original form of payment was ETC + a few bucks paid with CC. Not sure UA would even refund it. In the CO days I believe CO would refund the residual to a new ETC. Does UA handle it the same way?

allthem

Hi everyone,

First of all, I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask this question - not totally sure. But I'm trying to book a pair of fully cash refundable (including, potentially, after departure) United tickets from SFO to LAX. Searching for unrestricted fares on United's website gives me a couple of U class tickets for $225 each with the cancellation rules below. Can anyone confirm that I'm reading this right that this ticket is fully refundable for cash (not a united credit or something)? I don't usually need to book refundable tickets, so this is a little out of my wheelhouse. Oh, the fare basis code is UAA0AKEY if that matters, too.


CANCELLATIONS
BEFORE DEPARTURE
CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED.
NOTE -
--
EXCHANGE - CHANGE TO 1ST TICKETED FLIGHT COUPON
OR WHOLLY UNUSED TICKET
--
RESIDUAL VALUE MAY BE REFUNDED OR APPLIED
TOWARD MOST DOMESTIC OR INTERNATIONAL
NEW TICKET PURCHASE AT CURRENT FARE LEVELS.
ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE / TAX
COLLECTED/REFUNDED AT TIME OF TICKET EXCHANGE.
--
TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY
CHANGE IS MADE.
.
1. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS -
CHANGE TO ORIGINATING FLIGHT -
--
REPRICE USING CURRENT QUALIFYING
FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
--
NO CHARGE OR HIGHEST FEE OF ONLY CHANGED
FARE COMPONENTS. ONLY CHARGE ONE FEE FOR ONLY
CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS IF CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS
HAVE A FEE TO CHARGE.
--
1. ANY CARRIER FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED
2. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE --
--
REFUND RESIDUAL VIA ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT //
ADD-COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE IF ANY // CHARGE
CHANGE FEE WHEN APPLICABLE
--
AFTER DEPARTURE
CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED.
NOTE -
--
CALCULATE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FARE PAID AND
QUALIFYING FARE FOR TRAVEL COMPLETE
USING FARES OF ORIGINAL TICKET DATE /
REFUND RESIDUAL VALUE IF ANY TO ORIGINAL
FORM OF PAYMENT
--
NOTE -
--
TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY
CHANGE IS MADE
--
WHEN REFUNDABLE FARES ARE COMBINED ON A HALF
ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH PENALTY OR RESTRICTED FARES
TO FORM A RT/CT/OJ ITINERARY THE MOST RESTRICTIVE
PROVISIONS WILL APPLY TO THE PRICING UNIT
--
EXCEPTION -
FARES COMBINED END-ON-END ON THE TICKET//IE
FARES THAT COULD STAND ALONE IF ISSUED ON A
SEPARATE TICKET// MAY BE CHANGED SEPARATELY
--
CHANGES
BEFORE DEPARTURE
CHANGES PERMITTED.
NOTE -
--
-------------------------------
--
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET
VALIDITY CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVOSIONS
MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF UA INTERNATIONAL
FARES. -- NO CHARGE -- OR HIGHEST FEE OF
ONLY CHANGED FARE COMPONENT/S/ WITHIN JOURNEY.
--
ONLY ONE FEE IS CHARGED FOR CHANGED FARE
COMPONENT/S/ IF FARE RULE NOTES CHANGE FEE.
--
DOWNLINE DATE CHANGE / FLIGHT CHANGE
SAME BOOKING CODE / KEEP THE FARE
--
REPRICE USING CURRENTLY TICKETED/HISTORICAL FARE
--
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET -
--
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FLIGHT COUPON/FARE BREAKS
2. ALL TRAVEL REMAINS DOMESTIC
3. SAME UA FARE USED
4. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
5. VALIDATE ADVANCE RES/TICKETING FROM ORIGINAL
TICKET DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
CHARGE CHANGE FEE WHEN APPLICABLE
--
--
FARE BREAK POINT CHANGE PERMITTED
--
A. CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS USE FARE IN EFFECT
TODAY
B. ALL OTHERS USE CURRENTLY TKTD FARES
--
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET -
1. ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED
2. TRAVEL IS DOMESTIC
3. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
4. ADVANCE RES IS MEASURED FROM NEW TKT ISSUED
DATE IF CURRENT FARES/FROM PREVIOUS TKT ISSUE
DATE IF HISTORICAL FARES TO DEPARTURE OF
PRICING UNIT
--
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE--
--
REFUND RESIDUAL VIA ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT //
ADD-COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE IF ANY // CHARGE
CHANGE FEE WHEN APPLICABLE
--
AFTER DEPARTURE
CHANGES PERMITTED.
NOTE -
--
AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET
VALIDITY CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS
MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF UA INTERNATIONAL
FARES.
--
NO CHARGE -- OR HIGHEST FEE OF ANY CHANGED FARE
COMPONENT WITHIN JOURNEY -
--
ONLY ONE CHANGE FEE CHARGED FOR CHANGED FARE
COMPONENT/S/ ONLY IF FARE RULE NOTES A CHANGE FEE
IS TO BE CHARGED FOR CHANGE
--
REPRICE USING CURRENLTY TICKETED/HISTORICAL FARES
DOWNLINE DATE CHANGE / FLIGHT CHANGE
SAME BOOKING CODE / KEEP THE FARE
--
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO FARE BREAKS
2. ALL TRAVEL REMAINS DOMESTIC
3. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
4. UA FARES ARE USED
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO
DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
FARE BREAK POINT CHANGE PERMITTED
--
A. FULLY FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USE FARES IN
EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
B. ALL OTHERS USE FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
--
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO FARE BREAKS OF FULLY FLOWN
FARE COMPONENTS
2. ALL TRAVEL REMAINS DOMESTIC
4. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
5. ANY FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED
6. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
7. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE IF
CURRENT FARES ARE USED/FROM PREVIOUS TKT DATE
IF HISTORICAL FARES TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
OR -
--
FARE BREAK POINT CHANGE PERMITTED
--
A. CHANGED FARE COMPONENETS USE FARE IN EFFECT
TODAY.
B. ALL OTHERS USE CURRENTLY TKTD FARE.
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO FARE BREAKS UP TO THE FIRST
CHANGED FARE COMPONENT
2. ALL TRAVEL REMAINS DOMESTIC
3. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
4. ANY UA FARE TYPE EXCEPT EOU/ERU ARE USED
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM NEW TKT ISSUE DATE
IF CURRENT FARES/FROM PREVIOUS TKT ISSUE DATE
IF HISTORICAL FARES TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
--
-- WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN FARE DIFFERENCE --
--
REFUND RESIDUAL VIA ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT //
ADD COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE IF ANY // CHARGE
CHANGE FEE WHEN APPLICABLE
--

findark

(I excerpted the important parts.) Yes, those tickets are what you want them to be. Make sure that they are not booked in combination with other non-refundable fare components on the same ticket; this may impact their refundability.

If there were any restrictions on the ticket, it would say "Charge xxx for reissue/refund" (cancelations), "Ticket is non-refundable" (cancelations), and/or "Charge xxx for reissue" (changes).

allthem

Wonderful! When I called UA, the agent seemed very confused and put me on hold for 20 minutes before offering an A fare, so I figured someone more knowledgeable may be available here.....Thanks!

drewguy

I realize they need to lawyer up the fare rules, but good lord they should have (or be required to have) a short summary along these lines for any fare code putting out the basics.

lincolnjkc

The lazy way is to watch during both checkout ("I accept the rules associated with this refundable ticket" or something along those lines just before you click to purchase) as well as the endorsement on the issued ticket (-/-REFUNDABLE-/- for refundable tickets or NONREF/0VALUAFTDPT/CHGFEE for non refundable tickets)

I use both of these as my primary (before checkout) and secondary (after ticket issue but within 24 hours) sanity checks to make sure I don't wind up with a nonref ticket.

findark

When buying on united.com, I tend to find the summary right next to the "Purchase" button actually does a decent job of noting how refundable the ticket is.

The main reason why fare rules are so byzantine is actually not legal -- most of the text is designed to be parsed by machine so it needs to follow a strict (and not concise) grammar. Any auto-pricing engine has to read the entire fare rules text.

lsquare

I spent a bit of time trying to find a way to purchase a fully flexible fare that will allow me to cancel without any penalties and get a full refund. I noticed that there are both U and E fares when searching for unrestricted fares. I'm assuming that these two fares allow me to cancel after the 24 hour period and still get a full refund if my travel plan changes?

paperwastage

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...on-please.html

See wiki

You can also peek at the fare rules to confirm (there is a link to view fare rules during checkout)

murphyUA

Thread title brought me back to some good ole' Tulip days