MP redemptions as of now. Sad :(
Sep 5, 2014, 5:14 pm
#121
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In an aisle seat...
Programs: TK Elite, IHG Gold, Accor Silver, Ex-Malev Platinum (RIP)
Posts: 69
I've actually found improved UA saver redemptions/availability in *A partners in C since the merger, but maybe this is just dumb luck given my routes and dates (maybe some wise FTalker can explain??) So far in 2014 (which has been my biggest miles burn year to date in 8 years of 1K membership), I have successfully booked the following MP redemptions in C saver.
Jan: JFK-ZRH-LHR on LX
Mar: LHR-BKK/BKK-SYD on TG (Could never find any complete Europe-SIN-Aus on SQ C. Only 1 segment in C and another in Y).
April: SYD-SFO-EWR on UA
May: JFK-FRA-TXL on LH (A380 TATL but old and tired C product - great plane - first time on A380, but gee LH has gone downhill in most aspects of C.)
August: FRA-VIE-JFK on new OS C (Very impressed with TATL OS hard and soft product - better than LX in my view. And definitely best food of any TATL carrier in C I've experienced - and this is comparing to my other recent experiences in TATL C on SA, BA, VS, AF and DL). Plus VIE is a great transit point. Will start booking more paid long-haul C in OS if the price differential doesn't scare corporate travel too much:-))
Also have had fairly regular bump ups over the last few years on LX intra-Europe from Y to C (mostly on BEG-ZRH) and SA intra-Africa (only on LOS-JNB) - these routes always seem heavily overbooked in Y and *G seems to count here...
Jan: JFK-ZRH-LHR on LX
Mar: LHR-BKK/BKK-SYD on TG (Could never find any complete Europe-SIN-Aus on SQ C. Only 1 segment in C and another in Y).
April: SYD-SFO-EWR on UA
May: JFK-FRA-TXL on LH (A380 TATL but old and tired C product - great plane - first time on A380, but gee LH has gone downhill in most aspects of C.)
August: FRA-VIE-JFK on new OS C (Very impressed with TATL OS hard and soft product - better than LX in my view. And definitely best food of any TATL carrier in C I've experienced - and this is comparing to my other recent experiences in TATL C on SA, BA, VS, AF and DL). Plus VIE is a great transit point. Will start booking more paid long-haul C in OS if the price differential doesn't scare corporate travel too much:-))
Also have had fairly regular bump ups over the last few years on LX intra-Europe from Y to C (mostly on BEG-ZRH) and SA intra-Africa (only on LOS-JNB) - these routes always seem heavily overbooked in Y and *G seems to count here...
Last edited by Aisleseater; Sep 5, 2014 at 5:28 pm
Sep 5, 2014, 5:53 pm
#122
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
Programs: 3.2MM AA, 1.4MM UA,StwdLftPlt
Posts: 1,586
It's cyclical, if anything.
When, 'the bad old days' (banks failing, unemployment at 8%, etc.) come back, as they inevitably will, then airlines and hotels will loosen up on their policies.
From a general (and personal) economic health perspective, high flight prices, high hotel prices, a lack of inventory on miles / points, are all very positive indicators that the economy is doing well.
Which, in the big picture, is more important to me than whether I can find saver C inventory SFO-anywhere.
When, 'the bad old days' (banks failing, unemployment at 8%, etc.) come back, as they inevitably will, then airlines and hotels will loosen up on their policies.
From a general (and personal) economic health perspective, high flight prices, high hotel prices, a lack of inventory on miles / points, are all very positive indicators that the economy is doing well.
Which, in the big picture, is more important to me than whether I can find saver C inventory SFO-anywhere.
It will be interesting to see how much loosening occurs when the next recession starts. We now have 3 players-and Southwest. It would seem to me that as we enter an oligopolistic market, the use of tools like FF promotions to increase flying when demand is reduced will diminish.
Sep 5, 2014, 9:35 pm
#124
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
From a general (and personal) economic health perspective, high flight prices, high hotel prices, a lack of inventory on miles / points, are all very positive indicators that the economy is doing well.
Which, in the big picture, is more important to me than whether I can find saver C inventory SFO-anywhere.
Which, in the big picture, is more important to me than whether I can find saver C inventory SFO-anywhere.
The economy is of course a factor too but let's not put lipstick on a pig. @:-)
Sep 5, 2014, 11:36 pm
#125
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
High air prices is a result of consolidation from 6 network carriers to 3, reduced capacity and reduced hubs meaning few choices, fewer seats, higher load factors = less redemption seats + higher ticket prices.
The economy is of course a factor too but let's not put lipstick on a pig. @:-)
The economy is of course a factor too but let's not put lipstick on a pig. @:-)
But, I think the much improved economy is a more important factor.
We'll see how well the Big 4 (UA, WN, AA, DL) can quickly throttle down capacity when the next downturn occurs. If, in tacit conjunction, they are able to reduce capacity in a disciplined way, keeping prices high and award inventory low, then you will have turned out to be correct.
We'll see, and hopefully not soon!
Sep 6, 2014, 7:52 am
#126
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
Went to look at availability last night and noticed lots more saver economy on a couple of my "regular" award routes. I even had an existing award booking change sometime this week from a CR7 to an A320. For a three hour flight! YES. ^
Sep 6, 2014, 8:28 am
#127
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
I would agree that consolidation plays a part here.
But, I think the much improved economy is a more important factor.
We'll see how well the Big 4 (UA, WN, AA, DL) can quickly throttle down capacity when the next downturn occurs. If, in tacit conjunction, they are able to reduce capacity in a disciplined way, keeping prices high and award inventory low, then you will have turned out to be correct.
We'll see, and hopefully not soon!
But, I think the much improved economy is a more important factor.
We'll see how well the Big 4 (UA, WN, AA, DL) can quickly throttle down capacity when the next downturn occurs. If, in tacit conjunction, they are able to reduce capacity in a disciplined way, keeping prices high and award inventory low, then you will have turned out to be correct.
We'll see, and hopefully not soon!
If we loop in WN which purchased AirTran the consolidation has been nothing short of staggering.
Going from 6 to 3 network airlines, then at the same time WN buys out discounters ATA and AirTran which consolidates LGA and MDW.
All of a sudden airlines go fee crazy with fees (billions of dollars), food for sale, etc. This has only been possible because consolidation.
When the economy tanks and profits go down, what you are going to see is new fees -- to use your miles -- much like the BA fuel surcharges. Yes, you might get more incentives with bonus miles and things like that, but you can bet you will find more charges with the rationale -- 'we're losing money - we needed to look at what we are giving for what were getting, and there needed to be a better balance. Even with these changes, the value of our loyalty programs is far in excess of any other industry."
Last edited by elitetraveler; Sep 6, 2014 at 10:40 am
Sep 6, 2014, 10:09 am
#128
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
LOL - my highlighting -- a part?
If we loop in WN which purchased AirTran the consolidation has been nothing short of staggering.
Going from 6 to 3 network airlines, then at the same time WN buys out discounters ATA and AirTran which consolidates LGA and MDW.
All of a sudden airlines go fee crazy with fees (billions of dollars), food for sale, etc. This has only been possible because consolidation.
When the economy tanks and profits go down, what you are going to see is new fees -- to use your miles -- much like the BA fuel surcharges. Yes, you might get more incentives with bonus miles and things like that, but you can bet you will find no charges with the rationale -- 'we're losing money - we needed to look at what we are giving for what were getting, and there needed to be a better balance. Even with these changes, the value of our loyalty programs is far in excess of any other industry."
If we loop in WN which purchased AirTran the consolidation has been nothing short of staggering.
Going from 6 to 3 network airlines, then at the same time WN buys out discounters ATA and AirTran which consolidates LGA and MDW.
All of a sudden airlines go fee crazy with fees (billions of dollars), food for sale, etc. This has only been possible because consolidation.
When the economy tanks and profits go down, what you are going to see is new fees -- to use your miles -- much like the BA fuel surcharges. Yes, you might get more incentives with bonus miles and things like that, but you can bet you will find no charges with the rationale -- 'we're losing money - we needed to look at what we are giving for what were getting, and there needed to be a better balance. Even with these changes, the value of our loyalty programs is far in excess of any other industry."
So, are you arguing that if we still had Northwest, Continental, American Airlines, America West, Airtran in addition to the surviving United, US Airways, Delta, and Southwest, that today, even with our improved economy, prices would be lower than they are and saver award inventory would be higher?
Capacity discipline would not have happened without consolidation?
I can't argue that you are wrong (or right), because we just can't know for certain. So we speculate.
Let's just agree that the combination of a) consolidation, b) improved economy, and c) better / more disciplined capacity management has led to a less flyer friendly (ticket cost, award availability) environment.
The degree to which a, b, and c are factors, we can still argue.
Sep 6, 2014, 10:53 am
#129
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
LOL - my highlighting - ONLY possible because of consolidation?
So, are you arguing that if we still had Northwest, Continental, American Airlines, America West, Airtran in addition to the surviving United, US Airways, Delta, and Southwest, that today, even with our improved economy, prices would be lower than they are and saver award inventory would be higher?
Capacity discipline would not have happened without consolidation?
I can't argue that you are wrong (or right), because we just can't know for certain. So we speculate.
Let's just agree that the combination of a) consolidation, b) improved economy, and c) better / more disciplined capacity management has led to a less flyer friendly (ticket cost, award availability) environment.
The degree to which a, b, and c are factors, we can still argue.
So, are you arguing that if we still had Northwest, Continental, American Airlines, America West, Airtran in addition to the surviving United, US Airways, Delta, and Southwest, that today, even with our improved economy, prices would be lower than they are and saver award inventory would be higher?
Capacity discipline would not have happened without consolidation?
I can't argue that you are wrong (or right), because we just can't know for certain. So we speculate.
Let's just agree that the combination of a) consolidation, b) improved economy, and c) better / more disciplined capacity management has led to a less flyer friendly (ticket cost, award availability) environment.
The degree to which a, b, and c are factors, we can still argue.
I see new "innovations" where "pay a fee" to access expanded redemption capacity "giving our customers a choice."
Regarding the economy, as I see it the economic recovery is widely varied. Yes the stock market is at record levels but 95% of the gains have gone to people in the 1 percent tax bracket.
Fewer and fewer companies give across the board cost of living increases
Downsizing has become corporate mantra
Corporate profits have been boosted by cutting expenses not selling more
I don't see corporate travel policies loosening up. Technology is improving compliance
If you look at the downsizing/closure of LAS (HP), STL, SJU (AA), MEM/CVG (DL), CLE (UA), MKE (F9) and DL's cutbacks in MSP it all means less network options and competition from fewer players.