Denied boarding because didn't have Visa for China, though only connecting there.
Jun 20, 2014, 2:46 am
#241
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
I've given the info on what that agent should have known.
This UA agent was wrong, unless the OP holds a passport that does not fall into these rules. The UA agent should use Timatic (which UA and every other carrier use).
We do not know what passport OP holds, as he has not come back to FT with more details.
If it is a US passport - UA is 100% wrong.
Jun 20, 2014, 6:47 am
#242
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,314
The only issues I've had were with TK and OZ at outstations. Luckily unlike the UA agent in this case they could read.
With CA, there are zero issues (heck, even FJ didnt have an issue
) - they know the rules, because they see this everyday.
Jun 20, 2014, 7:34 am
#243
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,542
This was in no way the OP's fault. BUT! Those who criticize the advice of bringing paper or proof or other advice miss one impotant point. If the OP had done any of those things he would have sailed forward on his trip without a hitch and we wouldn't be debating it here.
Be prepared. I know that's "Boy Scout-ish". But it works.
Be prepared. I know that's "Boy Scout-ish". But it works.
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
Jun 20, 2014, 7:55 am
#244
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: United Plat and falling
Posts: 100
I'm with you. Never would I blame the OP, but contingency planning is a must. Here's my top 10 list:
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
Jun 20, 2014, 8:18 am
#246
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,542
Some of us just refuse to believe in the concept "circumstances beyond one's control". I, for one, will NOT be that guy that turns to his wife and kids and has to explain we aren't taking a vacation after all because I didn't plan ahead. The contract of carriage has saved me numerous times, the chase car only once, back up reservations two or three times.
And just for the record, in no way is any of this directed at the OP. In a perfect world, one wouldn't have to contingency plan to the extent that I do.
Safe travels to all - Jamie
And just for the record, in no way is any of this directed at the OP. In a perfect world, one wouldn't have to contingency plan to the extent that I do.
Safe travels to all - Jamie
Jun 20, 2014, 8:41 am
#247
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
+1...well stated.
Although I would say that #10 is a very good tip that everyone should follow. There have been cases reported of passport thieves on international flights when people are sleeping. Easy for someone to rifle through your bag, pretending its theirs while you're asleep.
Although I would say that #10 is a very good tip that everyone should follow. There have been cases reported of passport thieves on international flights when people are sleeping. Easy for someone to rifle through your bag, pretending its theirs while you're asleep.
Last edited by JBord; Jun 20, 2014 at 8:47 am
Jun 20, 2014, 9:02 am
#248
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
Some of us just refuse to believe in the concept "circumstances beyond one's control". I, for one, will NOT be that guy that turns to his wife and kids and has to explain we aren't taking a vacation after all because I didn't plan ahead. The contract of carriage has saved me numerous times, the chase car only once, back up reservations two or three times.
And just for the record, in no way is any of this directed at the OP. In a perfect world, one wouldn't have to contingency plan to the extent that I do.
Safe travels to all - Jamie
And just for the record, in no way is any of this directed at the OP. In a perfect world, one wouldn't have to contingency plan to the extent that I do.
Safe travels to all - Jamie
I think trying to cite the CoC to an agent is probably approximately equivalent to throwing a copy of the constitution at a cop with his gun drawn at you.
Jun 20, 2014, 9:04 am
#249
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,392
I'm with you. Never would I blame the OP, but contingency planning is a must. Here's my top 10 list:
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
Jun 20, 2014, 9:10 am
#250
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,542
Agent: can't be done, delay has to be over four hours.
Me: I was actually under the impression it was two hours, are you sure?
Agent: yes.
Me: Could I just see that in the CoC?
Agent: we don't keep a copy of that here.
Me: OK, that's fine, let's just use mine (and I produced it from my bag).
I directed the agent to the relevant language, she apologized and then immediately FIM'd me to BA. I even had time on the train to the international terminal to ring BA and get an upgrade to F, since I was originally ticketed in J (had upgraded with GPU) so naturally that's how I was protected. Later the next day I saw the UA flight ultimately operated, but with something like a 5 hour delay. Pity for those that didn't take matters into their own hands. But then again, apparently I'm "crazy"
Be well - Jamie
Last edited by jamienbaker; Jun 20, 2014 at 9:18 am
Jun 20, 2014, 9:23 am
#251
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I'm with you. Never would I blame the OP, but contingency planning is a must. Here's my top 10 list:
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
1. Carry printed copy of airline's contract of carriage. Surprising how reluctant some staff can be to punch this up.
2. Track all inbound tail numbers of likely outbound aircraft. Tough in hubs, easier in spokes.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
4. Chase car. I hire a backup SUV to follow the family to the airport, riding a few miles back. Good insurance if an accident occurs.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
6. Monitor JFK tower en route to airport. LiveATC makes this easy.
7. Status of crew - are they local, or flying in? Track their inbounds, too, if you can.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
10. Keep passport on person, never in overhead. There was a case in BKK where a 744 had to abort takeoff, there was a fire, and they pulled the chutes. Pax that left passports on board had to wait over a day before they could gather belongings. Those with passports were free to leave.
I realize this is likely overkill and beyond what most non-warriors would consider. Just thought I'd throw out some advice for those who take leisure travel as seriously as I do.
And if you are THAT Jamie N. Baker, always cover your shorts of UAL with longs of DAL or AAL.... 
Jun 20, 2014, 9:24 am
#252
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,942
Good points ... but some may not be practical (or even feasible).
Printouts of #3? Considering how quickly this can change???
Printouts of #3? Considering how quickly this can change???
I'm with you. Never would I blame the OP, but contingency planning is a must. Here's my top 10 list:
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
3. Carry printouts of availability on other airlines, particularly alliance partners. Always better to tell staff how you'd like to be reaccomm'd rather than leaving it to them.
5. If mileage balance allows, back up bookings on another airline the next day. You can always get the miles redeposited, usually for free if top elite level. I'm holding three separate reservations, on one each alliance, for an upcoming trip this summer.
8. Mobile number of station manager.
9. Visa (if necessary) of countries that may be diversion points. If a city in China is a potential diversion point, you don't want to be sequestered there in the event you have to divert and await a replacement aircraft.
Jun 20, 2014, 9:27 am
#253
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,542
You give some really good advise here, but the bolded ones I find to be a little OCD and impractical for most. To each their own, though. I always track inbound flights, UA's mobile app makes it relatively easy nowadays. I always have a plan B/C routing in mind, it's saved not only me but my wife in a few situations over the years.
#5 is mandatory given the uncertainty of summer weather. Seriously, if you have a family of four (or more) booked on awards in a premium cabin and your flight is cancelled or materially delayed (meaning downstream connections are blown), you really think you're going to find 4 empty F seats at that point?
#6 and #7 matter more during the winter, in my experience. When snow is messing up JFK, it helps knowing you have a local crew than one that is trying to fly in. But even knowing this doesn't necessarily salvage your trip.
#8 is probably overkill, but if you have access why not keep it handy?
#9 really depends on where you are going.
I agree apps make life much easier these days, in fact I now keep PDFs of CoCs instead of paper copies. Cuts down on packing, that's for sure.
Be well, and thanks for your input - Jamie
Jun 20, 2014, 9:31 am
#254
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,542
Best, Jamie
Jun 20, 2014, 9:50 am
#255
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Truth be told, I printed my Top 10 list some time ago and copied from another thread (CX I believe). A simple subscription to Expertflyer does the trick in this day and age. Point is I've found airport and telephone agents to be most helpful when YOU can politely suggest alternatives: "you know, I was checking before and it looks like Lufthansa is wide open if I fly to Munich instead of Frankfurt". The alternative of "GET ME TO MY DESTINATION NOW!" isn't the way to warm the hearts of overworked employees.
Best, Jamie
Best, Jamie
The ancillary rule is when you follow someone who was yelling at the agent or making unreasonable demands, first apologize that they had that experience, be polite, maybe crack a small joke, and I've always found they will go out of their way to help me.