mgcsinc

Again, what on earth do you mean by this mystical "everything" that people are supposed to know and plan for? Should I print out the aeronautical charts to give the pilots, too? Where do you draw the line?

This "be prepared" crap works well as a boy scouts motto, I suppose. But it's an unworkable and frankly idiotic life policy.

You want to go where?

You have one concept right and another partially right, and one wrong. I agree that it is the responsibility of the traveler to have the correct documents to enter/transit a country - passport, visa, letter of invitation, whatever it takes. In this case, the traveler did have the correct documents. While, personally, I would do the research to know that I had the correct documents and believe that it is good practice to do so, it is irrelevant that this traveler may not have, because they did, in fact, have the correct documents.

I would add, that if a traveler is trying to do something legitimate but unusual, the traveler should also have documentation from the country in question that the documents are adequate. In this case, the traveler was not trying to do something unusual. International transit of large airports is common enough that United show know the rules.

However, it is the responsibility of the airline to know what documents are required under common circumstances and to apply that knowledge accurately. It should not be necessary for the traveler to be able prove that.
International transit of a major airport is a common circumstance. This is a United failure, plain and simple.

craz

Sorry I Disagree with this. The OP was told by their TA that no Visa was necessary for connecting @ PEK,thats enough for me, but being whom I am I would have either searched FT or called a Consulate to be sure, and both ways I would have came to the same conclusion No Visa is needed for Transit1 I never would have printed anything out , no need to. Seems UAs computers arent up to date thats UAs fault

Duke787

Exactly - again it's beyond me why this would be the OP's responsibility. In no other service industry is the burden on the customer if things go wrong because of an ill-informed employee. Only in the airline industry is it the customer's fault for not correctly identifying that the company employee was wrong

The blame is squarely on United's shoulders and it's on UA to adequately train their own employees. It's not the responsibility of the OP or any other customer to go take a training course in UA policies and procedures and the various rules and regulations of every country and scenario during their trip as a prerequisite for flying on UA.

sfozrhfco

Assuming that the average traveler who takes a flight once every few years is going to know that UA is highly likely to provide false information or not train their employees as to how to use timatic is a little much to expect. For those that have come to expect incompetence as the norm, that is quite sad to still support this company with your hard earned cash.

spin88

+1 The entire point of having a social media presence is to publically fix issues, which gives everyone a warm and fuzzy feeling. It costs some money yes, but the PR is very valuable.

Aaron comes on in the first day, says, we have reached out and are offering compensation and fixing this issue, working on a memo to reiterate transit rules so this does not happen again. Everyone feels better about UAL, win, win.

But if you have a rep, the rep stays silent, then it looks to me (and others) like the policy is to ignore your failures, scr*w over everyone you can, and hope you don't get caught. Obviously the OP was an unsophisticated traveler, and no response means Aaron's management (Aaron to be fair to him is the messenger) is perfectly happy to mess them over, hope it blows over.

This reminds me of the Ed Shatz (pearl harbor survivor denied boarding on the way to the Pearl Harbor remembrance, as UAL was oversold at LAX, no IDB given) incident. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...more-fuel.html

craz

Well it is the passengers responsibilty to know what they need in order to enter or transit any Country and not the Carriers, that includes if they need any shots etc etc Eg I fly UA to ORD and LO to WAW from there and then train it to Russia. I have a Visa for Russia in my PP its not the carriers role to ask how do I expect to get from WAW to SVO or to even ask about my Russian Visa unless Im flying back from there. The problem is the train goes thru Belarus and if you didnt know that and get a Visa to enter Belarus you arent going to get to Russia, even thru you never are gonna be stepping off the train itself in Belarus

It is 100% the Responsibility of the traveler to have dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts to what they will need and not the Airlines, all the Airlines need to do is make sure whatever the passenger needs they have so that they dont get hit with an expensive fine for flying a person in who doesnt have the proper documentation

moondog

Since you're among my favorite FT friends, I hate to call you out, but you're 100% wrong on this one (ALL passports qualify for TWOV in China).

moondog

This is not possible for two reasons:

1) TWOV has been in place for ~15 years
2) UA pulls data directly from TIMATIC (i.e. completely unrelated to its own computers, regardless of how old they may be), which is always current

moondog

In this case, dotting/crossing the Is/Ts is as simple as showing up with a passport (i.e. NOTHING else is required).

Kacee

This is not accurate. It's a limited list of countries which does not include the Phillipines.

MSPeconomist

That's true for the new 72 hour TWOV program but not for China's old and ongoing 24 hour TWOV. [IIRC there was an intermediate step with a 48 hour TWOV program only for some passports too.] Virtually everyone, including the OP, is eligible for China's 24 hour TWOV. OP's scheduled transit time in China was approximately three hours so the 24 hour TWOV applied.

Details of these rules have been discussed authoritatively and extensively in threads devoted to this purpose in the China forum on FT.

JBord

I'm going to repost my earlier example. Would you print out all the visa and visitor rules if you were flying to LHR? No, because you "know" the rules. The OP knew the rules. I totally agree we need to stop suggesting the OP wasn't prepared for something they couldn't have expected.

I'm all for preparation. I'm visiting a certain country for the first time in a few weeks, and I did all my own research to be sure I only need a passport. It's a Central European country, Schengen, etc., but I still checked. I will NOT be printing out rules for every document I don't need! If an agent asks for my birth certificate or my library card, I won't have either.

GBman

The contrast with the speed of UA Insider's posting in response to FTers' comments on UA losing Rory McIlroy's golf clubs is disappointing.

Happy

It so happened that yesterday a friend asked me whether he needed Chinese Visa for his trip to take a cruise starting at Tinjian. He holds this document - 港澳居民来往内地通行证 which now finally has brief English description at the back of the card issued since 2013 but his is older than that and has not a single word of English on it. This document allows the holder to FREELY enter China from any port in any mode, but it is NOT a Visa. Being a holder of such doc, he does NOT need a Visa to enter China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Return_Permit

I told him he did not need Visa, but he SHOULD print out the Exemption found directly on Star A's Visa and Health page with specific data entries. Bring that print out with him if he is flying UA or any other US airlines. Though I expect by now the UA SFO check in counters would have learned about such document is valid to enter China...

Luckily for him the exemption is right on the FIRST line of the requirement so if he does not print it out, he might still be OK.

Incidentally, ALL Asian Airlines KNOW exactly what it is. It is the US-Based airlines have UNTRAINED agents with extremely poor attitudes who have denied people boarding at the domestic airports that are not on both coasts... even now!

UA computer is not messed up. It is the check in agents did not go into the lengthy list found in the Visa and Health requirement that anyone could access from Star A website.

http://www.staralliance.com/en/services/visa-and-health

And that, is actually TIMATIC, run by IATA and is used by airlines, travel agencies, etc and it is current.

https://www.iata.org/publications/pages/timatic.aspx

It requires the agent to read thru the list in many scenarios to correctly determine the requirements. Unfortunately in 99% of the case the agents would not be willing to go thru it and just pick the first page then be done with. There are exemptions and exemptions listed but often not on the first page.

It is definitely NOT the passenger's responsibility to point the correct info out to the check in agents who should be TRAINED and at least be able to READ... But that is expecting too much from UA staff (and AA is no better - similar horror stories sprang up in AA forum periodically but the Plat, EXPs would not take this crab like the OP, who obviously represents the ordinary traveler population.) Too often the affected passengers demanded to reach the international desk where at least one person has the knowledge or know what to check, and then issue resolved, though not after hour or longer going back and forth with the check in counter. The most ignorance lies with the TWOV.

However, I would still suggest OP to print out the doc just to make life easier because unfortunately that seems the only way to protect oneself against untrained and ignorant agents, as well as indifferent airlines.

Exactly. I dont understand those who blame the victim on this. It is solely and squarely UA's fault.

I were the OP I would first file Complaint with DOT.

second, contact their state's attorney office consumer affair dept as well as the same entity where UA's HQ is located, presumably TX to get UA compensate the monetary loss OP suffers.

third, in the unlikely event the above 2 actions do not yield result, file a Small Claim Court suit, to seek compensation on the actual monetary loss as well as punitive damage if the OP's home state allows such.

It is about time UA learns a lesson that it cannot disavow the mistakes by its untrained agents.