Why does UA not codeshare with WN and "Fix the Problem"?
 

This entire current UA management team must leave or problem solved? SMI/J speaks down on his employees, throws a few jabs at DL (who is currently making record profits),

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...190013956.html

Rips former UA management, says the pmUA employees need more training, etc. Is this CEO nuts?

Solution, CODESHARE WITH WN on all domestic flts. I'm the first with this brilliant idea. ;) No more RJ's. No more UA agents in the USA, except in Hubs connecting to UA's International network, less Union talks.

SMI/J with his statements this week seem to think CO was the greatest thing since sliced toast with a few of those sausage patties thrown in. This WN codeshare solves many problems:

No RJ's, friendly staff, similar on-time record :td:, no meals, etc.

You also do not need to look for RJ pilots (shortage), and can fire maybe 60,000 UA employees (UA already started in Canada and Hawaii). It's a win-win, and meets all goals for SMI/J.

Is this going to happen to the "new UA"? :confused:

Remember the days when this community used to be filled with nuanced, insightful comments and suggestions? :td:

Yes I do, and I would rather fly a real jet (737's) between city pairs = WN provides that service, with a "smile" (no RJ's). Link that with UA's International network and it is a win win.

UA makes $ - WN makes $.

This thread is based on the statements UA's CEO made, that were complete rubbish. Let's see how UA's numbers pan out next week.

Remember when UA actually valued its frequent flyers? Perhaps that explains the increase in comments you don't approve of. ;)

If you think UA should abandon the domestic market through a partnership with another airline and focus entirely on international routes, you may want to research the history of PanAm and see how a similar strategy worked for them.

/thread

Except that PanAm sought domestic routes for years, and CAB wouldn't give them any, because of pressure brought by other airlines. When they finally relented and let them merge with a domestic airline, they stupidly bought National Airlines, which didn't provide the domestic feed they needed. Add to that was the fact that Pan Am was caught with a glut of inefficient aircraft when oil prices rose, and it was a recipe for disaster.

But in a sense, you are correct - Pan Am is an excellent example, one that United is in a sense following. Instead of having no domestic network, UA started with arguably the best domestic network in the country, and is systematically ruining it through a combination of actions, including a slow retreat into fortress hubs, flying dark RJs (and mainline birds) on major domestic routes while the competition offers mainline flights on heavy routes and when they offer RJs, they have F, WiFi, and real food up front. Add to that the idea that 80% on time is good enough for UA and the competition isn't at war with its own frequent flyers, you have a recipe for ultimate failure unless something changes.

didn't frank Lorenzo and texas international try to buy national and got into a bidding war with pan am. pan am won but Lorenzo made a killing off it.

Anyone remember when ExPlus was actually an industry-leading regional product by UA? Back when they actually were leading in anything other than number of DOT complaints?

I recall that at the time, not only had UA added F and E+ to RJs (and box meals, which although box meals were more than anyone else was offering), but they were talking about putting IFE in RJs.

Fast forward to today, and it seems like UA is using RJs on longer and longer routes, with more and more of them lacking any E+ or F (too many CRJ200s and E145s on 1000+ mile routes!), with no wifi or hot food on any of their RJ products.

This is one place where you need quotes. It should be "brilliant".

You are free to fly any airline you wish. If you love WN so much, why aren't you flying them? Why would a codeshare make a difference? United definitely has its problems, but I still find them infinitely better than WN in almost every respect.

If people like to complain about SHARES, your head would explode implementing code shares with SWA's reservation system.

Although technology is a limiter, the incredible cultural and financial aversion to such a proposal makes this thread a joke.

This ^

UA I really don't think is a terrible airline/company, it's their fleet that needs work. I say fire whomever is in charge of their fleet management. They think getting rid of 757/767's and replacing them with CRJ-200's is a fantastic idea (I personally know many routes that used to have these aircraft replaced with fifty seaters). AA and DL also have them but realize bigger = better. UA I know is getting rid of them but they think replacing larger aircraft for RJ's on high yield markets is a good business decision (when it's not). They also feel like these RJ's should have substandard service compared to the same plane/operating airline with Delta Connection/American Eagle. I sincerely think if they could fly E170's JFK-LAX or down to the Caribbean they could. I also want to fire whomever thought it was a great idea to replace A319/A320 seats (which sometimes fly cross country flights) with literally roller coaster vehicle seats.


TL;DR While UA might not be as bad as people make them out to be, their fleet is terrible and they need to fire whomever is in charge of it.

While some of this id true, some of it just isnt.

Last week I got home from Europe. On the way there I flew LH in Y, on the way home a UA 767. The UA plane was far far better than the LH flight. Given the choice I'd take the UA bird 10 times out of 10.

WN has no interest in this silliness...

I wasn't saying UA's product or the 767 was bad, I meant they are replacing the 767's (not internationally since they have other aircraft like the 787/A350 on order for that) but domestically with substandard aircraft.

The sad thing is UA stock is still up 25% YTD and 55% over the past year. While DL, AA, and WN are up more, it's going to take a rather sharp dive in those numbers for investors to push him out.

By comparison the S&P is up 5% YTD and 20% over the past year - so he's still beating the S&P by a healthy margin and really that's all that matters in the end unfortunately

Huh? What domestic 767s?

That's the issue, lol. AA and DL fly 767's domestically (not counting Hawaii). They also fly plenty of 757's domestically, something UA is getting rid of (minus the transcon JFK-LAX flights).

agreed. if you love WN fly them.

i rarely fly WN. i like what i get from UA even though some of their decisions aren't the brightest.

and no way WN would codeshare. no reason for them to do that.

Both AA and DL are parking 757s and the rate of the retirements will start accelerating next year. They're replacing with slightly smaller aircraft - 737-900ERs and/or A321s, just like United.

WN is too good for UA.

the codeshare problem could better be solved by partnering with Spirit (there are some striking parallels between the "big front seat" and UA domestic F, after all) and Allegiant. or maybe Frontier, at least DEN would get a lot of their service back that way.

Of course they wouldn't. Would you want to be allied with United at this point?

Seems to me de facto they have already done this in Denver:cool:

The idea of getting the United FA's to perform the hack WN routine is pretty funny

The idea is silly for any number of reasons, but largely because UA needs a domestic network to feed its international network, and the WN point-to-point system would have to be entirely recast to favor EWR, ORD, SFO, IAH, and IAD and mesh with international arrival and departure times. The moon will crack in half first. Also note than WN isn't having much trouble filling its own flights and making money without UA as a rock around its neck.

Towards the end Pan Am's "domestic network" had degenerated into a thin web of 1x or 2x/day feeder services timed to connect with its JFK and MIA international services, which meant odd flight times and largely empty aircraft. Imagine flying one RT 727-200 daily AUS-MSY-JFK, and back. Outstations like AUS, ALB, MSP, SLC, and MCI had just one departure, one arrival daily. (I have a January 1990 PA timetable here for reference.)

It was insane. Terrible a/c utilization, terrible yield. The National Airlines network for which they overpaid in the late '70s was utterly gone 10 or 11 years later. They'd spent bank trying to get away from sole reliance on international flights, but ended up mortgaging everything to support a dwindling overseas system.

You can't run a serious network airline without a serious domestic network.

Well, I agree that UA is squandering its domestic advantage -- dumb when you consider what a disadvantage they're already at internationally when it comes to service levels and reliability. This is why I wince when I see moves like drawing down PDX and shifting key domestic lift to the regionals. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Lol. I never understand people and loyalty. Fly whoever you want, loyalty programs are crap.

Sounds like your information are not up to date.

AA and DL flies very few 767 domestically compare to 10 years ago. AA used to fly quite a bit if 767/777 for domestic hub to hub including ORD-MIA, ORD-SFO, ORD-LAX, ORD-DFW, ORD-MIA, DFW-SFO. Now is like down to one 777 LAX-MIA. All AA's transcon 762 just retired and replace with 321. How many DL 763 are flying domestically other than a few transcon ? At one point DL even use 763 for ATL-ORD and the much bigger L1011, but those times are long gone.

Did you realize both AA and DL are both purchasing and delivering all the airbus 319/320/321 currently ? Both of them are slowing retiring 757, once they finished retired all their MD80, 757 will retire much faster than you think.

WN also flies into different airports at some major hubs. It uses HOU not IAH and MDW not ORD. Where UA is domestically weak - a hub like IAD, WN offers no value.

For California, both use LAX and SFO, but they compete directly against each other. I can't see WN interested at all.

A better partnership might be with JetBlue. Would it work though? I could see many some synergies in BOS with JetBlue having domestic feed maybe for some United international flights if United offered them and Star Alliance partner flights. Would there be benefit if JetBlue joined Star Alliance and benefit for both United and JetBlue?

WN flights not so great
 

I don't enjoy WN. I don't relish the idea of figuring out how to check in to get a decent seat. I do fly them when UA gets too greedy. A code share would push me away. I would either book direct or use DL.

Of course I don't get to vote .... Just vent ;-).

UA also flies 767s domestically, not counting Hawaii.

UA has more 777 and 787 domestic ops than either AA/US or DL.

It's easy to cherry pick stats...

I realize AA and DL are replacing their 767's and 757's. The difference between them and UA though is AA has plenty of 737/A320 family orders, as does Delta and they will do a fair aircraft swap/increase frequency. UA has some 737's on order, but currently UA's plan of attack it seems is to stick a CRJ or ERJ at the route and call it a day.

Like I said, UA is not a bad airline/company at all, but they can't keep throwing RJ's at routes that deserve at least a 737-700 or A319.

Delta and American are at least kind of consistent with what widebody routes they fly. UA will do a hub-hub swap every now and then but that's about it (other than the 787).

:D Thanks for this!

Can you do that thing where you insert a bunch of perfectly filtered tables that excellently demonstrate to everyone why they're all wrong?

United has a firm commitment for 63 737-900ERs and 100 737-MAX.

They are retiring 43 ERJs this year and will start retiring CRJs next year.

Well, in regards to this thread, I have to agree.

I can see it now, UA code shares with Southwest and then people start posting "How do I get a seat assignment on my UA codeshare flight?" :D

While I and many others disagree with kettle1's view, UA doesn't give their domestic ops the full attention it deserves, from their fleet to treating their workers right to the little soft product things.

Oops, dupe.

UA passengers can't handle five boarding groups without acting like finicky maniacs of doom. How on earth would they be able to handle 150-200? :)