craz

I will take #4 Art (for those old enough to remember Art Flemming) for $500

I think an employee will have to help out here, my guess is the computer wont allow anything once its programed that a PP must be shown. Sort of like when I cant do OLCI since they want my PP either swiped or looked at, even thou I had flown to SGN with UA 2 months prior and its the same PP. No one anywhere was even able to simply check me in and all they said was the computer wants it this way and it cant be done.

Now if it could be checked and swiped elsewhere (ORD or DC) I have no idea, but I could see where if the computer wants it @ ANC then ANC it must be and w/o swiping it there the kid is going no where fast

johnmont

You're putting words in my mouth. Or my post. One of the two

I didn't write that at all. What I wrote was the following:

That is quite relevant, imho, to the OP's issue, where he had his son's passport in hand for the international flight segment and thought that would be OK. As far as the unaccompanied minor issues...I admit I have no clue about those and can't speak to them.

Honestly, I thought the same thing myself (regarding the passport) as the OP. Last year I moved out to LA from Chicago to be with my girlfriend. Left most of my stuff in Chicago, including (stupidly) my passport. I booked a flight to Amsterdam passing through Chicago with enough of a layover for me to get from ORD to home and back to pick up my passport. Didn't dawn on me it would be a problem. Long story short, had to split the two segments so I could do an upgrade ORD->AMS with miles -- so I didn't end up running into a problem. But if that hadn't happened I probably would have been screwed...

MSPeconomist

Within the last year, a nine-year old boy took the light rail line (without paying) to the airport from somewhere in Minneapolis and went through TSA security at MSP without any documents and without a boarding pass. He then boarded a flight and flew to LAS without a ticket or boarding pass. The FAs noticed it and reported the situation. Apparently he just followed large families (and blended in with them, so that it looked like he was one of their kids) through security and again when boarding. There was a thread on this in the DL forum at the time and it was a big story on the local news for days and again when the kid was returned and went through a custody hearing that resulted in him being removed from the parents' home.

johnmont

I get tired of the piling on United thing too, but in fairness, where does one find the passport rules you're referencing? Yes, one can call...but that's also a roll of the dice regarding correct information imho...

As far as the minor traveling issues...being without child, I'm not familiar at all with those...

craz

yes I didnt say it wasnt possible to happen , but that the chances of it happeneing is not that great. Can you please list links to the other 100s or 1000s of such cases

Theres a person who won 2 Mega Lottos 1 after the other, yet the chances for winning just 1 is so small. Havent been to ANC in yrs last time there there wasnt any light rail. How in todays world can a person hand over a BP and end up on the wrong flight, yes it happens, not too often. How do folks still walk onto tarmacs or end up in a Restricted area that should have been locked and not assessable, usually someone wasnt doing their job!

So Id say the % that a 8 yr old alone with BP in hand can get thru and onto a plane is very slim, no not impossible just extremely slim , so much that it really shouldnt be brought into the discussion. Sort of like saying well if the 400 lb person started working out on a reg basis they could run the mile in under 4 mins even thou they are 65. Its possible but more likely not

garykung

The UM issue is a non-issue.

The DB issue is arguable. But based on the modern interpretation of air travel security, you have checkmated by UA. At the least - I don't understand why you had your son's passport instead of your wife.

To me - it is an expensive lesson.

That world has been changed since 9/11.

relangford

Not trying to get any flames here, but does an UM have to show picture ID (maybe a PP since no drivers license) to get through TSA or is the airline rep's (or parent's) word good enough? Isn't there a requirement that both parents have to sign a letter allowing overseas travel, even if one parent is present? It seems that even a child should keep (carry) their PP for overseas travel (my granddaughters - now 10 and 12, but 7 and 9 on earlier trip - carry their PPs when they come to visit even when with their parents).

LASUA1K

All this proves is that TSA didn't do it's job and the Gate agent let a passenger on without a boarding pass.

KenInEscazu

My first paragraph here has already been explained and acknowledged, so that's now a moot point. I get it now.

This is one of those rare occasions where I am going to reverse my position and side with UA. While I'm still very sympathetic to the OP and his situation, the potential problems have been explained in great detail here, and they are simply too many and too costly for UA to do anything other than stick to their rules.

I do hope they will find a way to at least refund the lost miles when the story is explained, as it seems apparent that the OP simply didn't think of this detail, as it is not something he and his son do on a regular basis.

When I say something negative about UA, I'm accused of always blaming them for everything. When I say something supportive of UA, I'm accused of being a UA apologist. I don't really care anymore. Sharing my thoughts, experiences and opinions here is something I enjoy, and participating here has definitely thickened my skin.

hobo13

Yes, it is clear and concise English. And the last time I checked, flying between ANC and ORD does not involve departing the United States. (Unless you believe that overflying Canada counts..... which it doesn't.)

I don't see how this language requires that the passport be checked in ANC vs. ORD.

hobo13

It seems like the core of your arguments rely on how unlikely everything is. First, you say it's unlikely he needed to check bags. Then you say it's unlikely that he could get through security.

But by arguing that it is UNLIKELY, not IMPOSSIBLE, you are indirectly acknowledging that it could happen. It is possible. Thank you.

For example -- most laypeople would say that it is impossible to get to escort your friend to the gate these days if you're not flying that day. But just about everyone on this forum knows it's trivial to create the proper document (a boarding pass) that will get you through security. Just buy a refundable ticket, go through security, refund it. Done. But the vast majority of the population would never think of that. They would say it's impossible. It's not.

My point is that what is very unlikely to you can be pretty straightforward for others. I have built my career around doing what nobody else thinks is possible. It's called thinking creatively and outside the box. Had it been my son who was in ANC and (for whatever silly reason), I had his passport in DC.... I promise you, I would have figured out a way to get him where he needed to be.

For the record, I'm not blaming UA, though I think they could have done a better job here. And But I'm also not blaming the OP for being upset about it.

Edit -- forgot the NOT.

raehl311

Disagree. He would have been fine, IF HE WERE AN ADULT.

Unaccompanied minors can't just show up and waltz through security and onto the plane, bag check or no bag check. He's going to have to check in at the gate, and when he does that the agents are going to want to see the passport because he's on an international itinerary.


OP erred in not having the passport with the child, end of story.

craz

I hear ya, part of the problem is like you have said how is a lay person suppose to know what they can and cant do or expect. I think UA when dealing with UMs should have a box of T&Cs (maybe they do) that has to be read and checked off. But Im sure something will pop up that wasnt mentioned and another thread would be started.. dont know if the OP will ever be back, but if they do return Id like to ask OP did you ever ask UA if its OK to do what you wanted to do and did some rep say No sweat? or did you simply decide on your own that it shouldnt be a problem?

As is always the case when it comes to things such as a Visa , the responsibility is on the passenger to know what they need and can and can not do

OT a case that I read about by chance.We're flying into TLL and a couple of days later taking a train (or bus as a backup) to LED. while googling around and reading some blogs and sites I learnt something there was a warning by folks saying if you plan to travel by train from Poland or West from there be fore Warned you will be going thru Belarus and will need to have gotten a Visa before setting out. I had no idea I thought if you arent getting off why get a Visa(we arent going thru Belarus and never had any plans to).

My pt is if we were going to then we would have ran into problems and been asked to get off , procure a visa and then continue on.That probaly would have messed up the Russian Visa since its Entry and Exit dates cant be changed at will and maybe caused us to overnight at our expense , have to buy new train tkts and if we couldnt get a visa for Belarus find a way to an airport to fly to LED. Im not sure the trains site has *s all over telling everyone this.Yet wed be SOL, since it would be our responsibility to have known this. I guess folks who train know this, I think if youre on a cruise and dont have a Visa then you must remain on board, so why not with a train? but them Belarus's rules and maybe other Countrys as well. Pt is the same its up to the traveller to know what they can and cant do

KenInEscazu

Reminds me of a situation in which I once found myself. I live in Costa Rica and travel frequently to Colombia. After having made several trips to Bogotá without a glitch, I arrived at BOG for my return trip one afternoon, and the CM TA asked to see my Yellow Fever Vaccination Card. "Huh? I've never needed this before."

"It's a new law. You now must have it to enter Costa Rica when traveling from Colombia." Great. "Is there a doctor's office nearby where I can go get one real quick?" He proceeds to tell me that the innoculation period is TEN DAYS! I didn't have ten days. "So what can I do?" He suggests that I talk to the guy selling the stretch wrap for checked bags.

That guy ends up selling me a vaccination card for $150 US, I go back to the counter, get my boarding pass, and away I go. Shocking, really, as Colombia is a really organized, lawful country, IME, but it worked. I ended up losing it earlier this year (it was good for 10 years) and I got a real vaccination for under $10 US in Costa Rica before departure for one of this year's trips.

ryerflyer

After 5 pages of replies, you nailed it. Thank you. So Daddy made him cry, not United.