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Old Sep 21, 2017, 4:08 pm
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The future of the LAX hub?

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Old Mar 16, 2022, 4:35 pm
  #526  
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This slide makes it obvious why UA can't neglect LAX. UA and/or ^A partners must provide comprehensive service out of LAX

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Old Mar 16, 2022, 6:49 pm
  #527  
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
This slide makes it obvious why UA can't neglect LAX. UA and/or ^A partners must provide comprehensive service out of LAX

img
That is quite interesting, and honestly surprising to me (that LA is second on all those metrics).

I do note it's from 2019, and I would be quite curious where things stand now. I doubt NY and LA have changed much, but I actually wonder if SF has moved downward on all counts.
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 6:55 pm
  #528  
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Originally Posted by fumje
That is quite interesting, and honestly surprising to me (that LA is second on all those metrics).

I do note it's from 2019, and I would be quite curious where things stand now. I doubt NY and LA have changed much, but I actually wonder if SF has moved downward on all counts.
Blue indicates UA hubs - but I think the bar themselves indicate area airport demand (not UA-specific).
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 7:12 pm
  #529  
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Blue indicates UA hubs - but I think the bar themselves indicate area airport demand (not UA-specific).
Ah yes, that is how I read it too. It's a good illustration, as you said.
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 7:47 pm
  #530  
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Another way to think of this, for UA at least, is to combine both LA and SF into a CA grouping. Changing / shifting flights out of one will draw down or increase the other. Only if they grow the pair will they see organic growth versus their competitors.

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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by DELee
Another way to think of this, for UA at least, is to combine both LA and SF into a CA grouping. Changing / shifting flights out of one will draw down or increase the other. Only if they grow the pair will they see organic growth versus their competitors.

David
I don't think UA needs necessarily expand/contract LAX at expense/benefit of SF. I think UA is doing it right - filling in the gaps from LAX that partners don't (eg LHR/Australia) and then a few non-stops to very important cities also served by partners.
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:16 pm
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
I don't think UA needs necessarily expand/contract LAX at expense/benefit of SF. I think UA is doing it right - filling in the gaps from LAX that partners don't (eg LHR/Australia) and then a few non-stops to very important cities also served by partners.
The problem is that UA doesn't think strategically on how big the LA market is. They provide so little service to especially western US and CAN destinations that doesn't require the UA flier to go up to SFO or to another hub. This would also feed both LAX International and *A partner flights coming and going. So LA folks fly other airlines instead. T7/T7.5 is dead in comparison to either T2/T3 (DL), T1 (WN) and T4/T5 (AA).

The LA demand is there. UA just isn't filling it.

David
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:31 pm
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I know quite a few people who have recently booked SEA-LAX on AS because UX only operates once daily SEA-LAX at 9pm. Why? Who knows!

I'd love to fly UA on that route, but I just can't. United doesn't want to even operate a mainline flight between one of the largest arts and culture cities in the world to one of the wealthiest tech hubs in the world? Really?!
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Polytonic
I know quite a few people who have recently booked SEA-LAX on AS because UX only operates once daily SEA-LAX at 9pm. Why? Who knows!

I'd love to fly UA on that route, but I just can't. United doesn't want to even operate a mainline flight between one of the largest arts and culture cities in the world to one of the wealthiest tech hubs in the world? Really?!
Ditto. Ditto. Another example: I'd like to fly to GEG from LAX non-stop. Right now I can't. I have to connect through SFO or DEN. Or fly AS or DL non-stop.

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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:36 pm
  #535  
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Originally Posted by DELee
The problem is that UA doesn't think strategically on how big the LA market is. They provide so little service to especially western US and CAN destinations that doesn't require the UA flier to go up to SFO or to another hub. This would also feed both LAX International and *A partner flights coming and going. So LA folks fly other airlines instead. T7/T7.5 is dead in comparison to either T2/T3 (DL), T1 (WN) and T4/T5 (AA).

The LA demand is there. UA just isn't filling it.

David
In the AA thread on LAX, it was mentioned that a key factor in AA's decision to scale back LAX was that many Asian airlines (with significantly lower cost structures and/or government support) serve it from their own countries. So, a lot of routes (existing at the time or potential) simply didn't pencil.
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Old Mar 16, 2022, 8:44 pm
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Originally Posted by moondog
In the AA thread on LAX, it was mentioned that a key factor in AA's decision to scale back LAX was that many Asian airlines (with significantly lower cost structures and/or government support) serve it from their own countries. So, a lot of routes (existing at the time or potential) simply didn't pencil.
There's demand not only TPAC but TATL from LAX. If AA doesn't have the planes with the legs and obviously PRASM to make it work, then they'll not compete. There are UA and AA fliers who'll stick with them who are not affiliated with the asian country flag carriers as well as the asian fliers who will need the connections that feed into the CONUS networks if they provide the flights - along with the service if they are going to price above the ULCCs.

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Old Mar 16, 2022, 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Polytonic
I know quite a few people who have recently booked SEA-LAX on AS because UX only operates once daily SEA-LAX at 9pm. Why? Who knows!
Huh? I love taking jabs at UA for its weak LAX network and operation as much as others on here, but this part is simply untrue. Every single UA/UAX SEA-LAX nonstop in the schedule out to February 2023 departs before 7pm.
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Old Mar 17, 2022, 12:31 am
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Originally Posted by dkc192
Huh? I love taking jabs at UA for its weak LAX network and operation as much as others on here, but this part is simply untrue. Every single UA/UAX SEA-LAX nonstop in the schedule out to February 2023 departs before 7pm.
Sorry, you're right, I misspoke. Flight actually arrives at 9:43pm. Still, once daily service SEA-LAX departing 2:23pm on UX through end of May (UA5320), and then it looks like it goes mainline UA sometime in June (UA 516) departing 6:55pm.

Heck, Air Canada even flies SEA-YVR 3x daily and YVR-LAX 4x daily. Is there really more demand YVR-LAX than there is SEA-LAX?
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Old Mar 17, 2022, 1:54 am
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Originally Posted by Polytonic
Heck, Air Canada even flies SEA-YVR 3x daily and YVR-LAX 4x daily. Is there really more demand YVR-LAX than there is SEA-LAX?
Definitely not. On a Friday in July, we have:

YVR-LAX: 5x AC, 3x WS, 1x UA (Express), 1x AA (Eagle)
SEA-LAX: 11x AS, 6x DL, 1x UA, 2x AA (Eagle), 1x B6

AS dominates SEA-LAX as it has hubs on both ends (as does DL). Obviously we won't see UA at anywhere close to that frequency, but I agree that 1-2x extra flights (for a total of 2-3x daily) would be nice.
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Old Mar 17, 2022, 7:58 am
  #540  
 
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How are the cargo revenues out of LAX? Is domestic cargo even a thing? Does the port of LA/Long Beach make a difference?
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