alex_b

What question of security? Are you suggesting that there are terrorists flying around on flights just in case a pilot has a heart attack and volunteers are asked for to assist in the cockpit?! It seems that the benefit of having somebody to assist with checklists, radio, monitoring instruments etc vastly outweighs either the potential distraction factor or the tiny tiny possibility that somebody crazy gets into the cockpit.

criostal

I always thought flight attendants were trained to use an automated defibrillator and to respond to medical emergencies. Great that there were two nurses on board, but does this mean the FAs would not have known what to do?

Just curious...

raehl311

If you have the option, let the trained medical staff do it. They're more proficient and insulates the airline from a little liability.


As for the flight experience, I think it would be pretty obvious to any pilot if the person they called up to help wasn't qualified. You're not asking the new person to make any decisions, just take over some rote tasks to lessen the workload on the remaining pilot and hopefully just be an extra set of eyes/ears to catch anything that might be going wrong earlier.

axl

Unless things were VERY challenging for me in the cockpit I would not have a non military or commercial pilot (re. US airline) in the cockpit. Due to security concerns I would prefer one of our flight attendants over a private/CFI/recreational pilot. I won't second guess that FO - each situation is unique and if he/she felt more comfortable doing that then that's their prerogative...after all, they were now the PIC.

alex_b

The quotes I've seen suggest a retired US Airforce pilot was the passenger who assisted.

freshairborne

I will agree with axl (and every bit of training, and UA policy) on this. Of course, all situations are different than the last or next, but unless there are a lot of big problems going on in addition to the other pilot's incapacitation problem, I would not even think of allowing a non-airline pilot, nor anyone else into the cockpit. The best of all solutions would be to have a pilot from our airline who's qualified in that type of aircraft, then one that's not, but still a UA pilot, then one from a different airline. That's as far as it goes, though. The chances of someone not familiar at least with large jet two-pilot operations being more distraction than advantage are too great. The security issues, while seemingly small, still exist also. Simply put, the risks outweigh the advantages, so it is against UA policy to have the vast majority of people in the cockpit. In fact, I'd rather have one of our flight attendants in the cockpit over a non-airline pilot.

All United pilots, and I'd have to assume that those from all US airlines, are trained in dealing with pilot incapacitation. There are no training scenarios that I've ever had that call for getting a non-airline pilot into the cockpit.

Getting the incapacitated pilot into a safe environment and getting the best care we can for him or her is very high on our list of priorities, no different than with a passenger in the same medical situation, but all, or even most other things being equal, the remaining pilot is capable of handling the situation.

FAB

ani90

United Passengers are definitely not vetted before they go on the plane; maybe happens with an airline like El Al, but certainly not UA. To be a commercial pilot requires a substantial amount of psychometric, psychological, psychiatric vetting amongst others.

Lots of psychos fly as passengers in airplanes and I would not want any in a cockpit. Some of them probably think they can fly a plane or treat a heart attack. Indeed several people in this forum have spend so much of their lifetime in airplanes that they too think they can fly planes and know what a copilot should or should not do in emergency.

If there is no off-duty pilot from United on board then I would rather the copilot takes his/her chance with a FA in the cockpit. There is a reason cockpit doors are kept locked and it is not just to avoid terrorists.

edcho

While I see your point of view, I'd rather take my chances with the un-vetted pilot in the extremely small chance that the other co-pilot has a situation (medical or otherwise)... you want to have someone that has basic flying experience (and atleast a few minutes of seeing how to actually fly the thing).

Either way -- I think both chances (sudo pilot going rogue or 2nd pilot being incapacitated) are extremely small.

ani90

Read response by freshairborne. Issue is not a pseudo pilot going rogue but that people may think think they are helping but don't realize they are harming. Some times the most dangerous helper is the informed or partly informed one who thinks he knows it all.

BF263533

If the first officer also had a medical incident and became incapacitated, it would be nice to have the passenger who was the best qualified pilot or retired pilot identified and near the cockpit standing by. They don't have to be in the cockpit unless they regularly fly a jet. I have often had many fare paying jet pilots sitting next to me.

Although rare, the second officer has a lot more stress and high blood pressure from the heart attack incident, so medical risk has to be heightened at that point.

I had a friend whose mother went to check on the grandmother. She found the grandmother dead, and dropped dead herself. Dual funeral. Just have the ducks lined up in the event the unlikely event happens on a plane.

Agreed that the FAs can run the defibrillator, but I have family and friends in the medical profession, and the nurse can do better than a well trained lay person, the advanced nurse practitioner or EMT even better, doctor more better, cardiologist the best. Well before the patient codes, most medical professionals pull in the most qualified.

I actually take a 325 mg before I get on the plane and carry it with me. I make sure my travelling companion takes one if not medically contraindicated for them.

And the aspirin can only help for DVT purposes. (At least in my opinion.)

The only time I ever had leg and ankle swelling was once where I flew continuously with out more than a 12 hour rest.

lensman

Wait, is there any literature on this? Perhaps worth a split thread if it would derail this one...

BF263533

Whether it prevents the heart attack or DVT, the poster on the aspirin has a good point.