Lack of ua mainline flights; Does united have more regional jets than other carriers?
Apr 23, 2013, 1:38 pm
#31
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: msp
Programs: AA PLT 3MM, DL PM 2MM
Posts: 1,142
When I plan a trip I look at RJ segments and lengths of flight. I am not price sensitive. I am not the only one I know who cares about this stuff. I refuse to sit on an UNITED RJ for 3 and 4 hours in their current state of service. Delta gets it, and AA has indicated they get it as well. UNITED can do what it thinks is best, and so will I.
Oct 12, 2013, 9:18 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MDE
Programs: AA EP, CM PP, AV GM, UA Silver, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,002
IAH-DFW/DAL - Only E145s until 4:58 PM
I booked a flight in July to fly MDE-BOG-IAH-DFW on January 19/20, 2014, and immediately applied a mileage upgrade which was confirmed. The BOG-IAH is a red-eye, and I specifically booked a longer than necessary connection in IAH so I could have an upgradeable aircraft for the final leg. My thought was that I would sleep on the red-eye, then shower and make some phone calls from the club before continuing on to Dallas.
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Oct 12, 2013, 10:51 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: PBI / FLL / YUL
Programs: UA 1K, Delta Plat, AA Plat, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 1,983
I booked a flight in July to fly MDE-BOG-IAH-DFW on January 19/20, 2014, and immediately applied a mileage upgrade which was confirmed. The BOG-IAH is a red-eye, and I specifically booked a longer than necessary connection in IAH so I could have an upgradeable aircraft for the final leg. My thought was that I would sleep on the red-eye, then shower and make some phone calls from the club before continuing on to Dallas.
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Oct 12, 2013, 11:09 am
#35
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: WAS, LAX
Programs: AS 100K
Posts: 1,330
Lack of ua mainline flights; Does united have more regional jets than other carriers?
UA's RJ madness is a big reason I switched to AA. One mainline flight per day out of CLT to ORD, out of the five hubs it flies to ex-CLT. AA? Every flight into and out of DFW is mainline and with excellent frequency compared to UA. I swear if I have to do another 2.5 hour E145 down to IAH, I'll shoot myself.
Oct 12, 2013, 12:25 pm
#36
Join Date: May 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium, IHG Spire Elite, National EE
Posts: 197
It's only a 1 hr 14 min flight. 224 Miles. Which probably means it's really about 45 minutes in the air. For such a short flight, I don't think that a switch to an EMB145 is all that much of a loss. It's just barely long enough to get you a "Warmed, all-natural breakfast scone" and you'd probably only end up getting your PDB and 1 other drink during the service in F.
Oct 12, 2013, 12:37 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
Using Friday's schedule as an example:
Here's domestic flights only:
Using seat hours as a proxy for seat miles out of convenience; slightly overstates the express flying due to the shorter flights with longer block times, but better reflects the amount of time spent butt-in-seat.
Code:
carrier | operated | flights | block_hours | seat_hours ---------+----------+---------+-------------+------------ AA | mainline | 1902 | 6216 | 1063485 AA | express | 1718 | 2719 | 140387 DL | mainline | 2511 | 7676 | 1433825 DL | express | 2997 | 5114 | 312770 UA | mainline | 1901 | 7741 | 1375438 UA | express | 3774 | 6360 | 341983 US | mainline | 1298 | 3471 | 568821 US | express | 1877 | 2691 | 165474
Code:
carrier | operated | flights | block_hours | seat_hours ---------+----------+---------+-------------+------------ AA | mainline | 1502 | 4204 | 645127 AA | express | 1584 | 2492 | 128656 DL | mainline | 2180 | 5361 | 883780 DL | express | 2840 | 4795 | 292859 UA | mainline | 1474 | 4849 | 738231 UA | express | 3417 | 5636 | 302210 US | mainline | 1196 | 2886 | 441994 US | express | 1762 | 2506 | 155175
Last edited by mduell; Oct 12, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Oct 12, 2013, 1:08 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MDE
Programs: AA EP, CM PP, AV GM, UA Silver, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,002
In addition to that one day, it is alarming that every time I want to go to Dallas (at least once/month) I will have to always connect to an E145 unless I'm flying late in the day. It may be tolerable every now and then, but the idea of ending almost every trip to Dallas that way, plus starting almost every departure from Dallas the same way, well... It isn't exactly what I'll be looking forward to, I'll put it that way.
Oct 12, 2013, 2:00 pm
#40
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MDE
Programs: AA EP, CM PP, AV GM, UA Silver, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,002
UA has many advantages for my personal travel habits. Mainly, their affiliation with Copa, and their reasonable redemption rates on Avianca. Those are admittedly huge factors for me.
I really dislike AA, and I really dislike intl. arrivals at MIA, but the thought of one mainline hop from MDE to MIA, then one mainline connection from MIA to DFW does have some strong appeal.
Oct 12, 2013, 5:18 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MDE
Programs: AA EP, CM PP, AV GM, UA Silver, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,002
I booked a flight in July to fly MDE-BOG-IAH-DFW on January 19/20, 2014, and immediately applied a mileage upgrade which was confirmed. The BOG-IAH is a red-eye, and I specifically booked a longer than necessary connection in IAH so I could have an upgradeable aircraft for the final leg. My thought was that I would sleep on the red-eye, then shower and make some phone calls from the club before continuing on to Dallas.
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Checking my flight schedules this morning, I see that a change was made to that final leg which went from a CRJ700 to an ERJ145. When looking for other options, I see that there are zero flights prior to 4:58 PM on any aircraft other than E145s. I checked other days, and they're all the same, so I can't benefit from moving it up or down in my date of travel.
In contrast, AA has 5 mainline flights to DFW starting at 7:30 AM which depart before UAX's 4:58 PM E170. For Houston-based pax, even WN would be a major upgrade compared to UAs E145s.
I fly this route very frequently, and I can't recall a flight that was not full. RJ or mainline. I have often seen oversold situations on even mainline flights.
How can UA possibly justify this kind of service out of one of their fortress hubs on such a very heavily traveled route? Connecting and IAH-based loyal MP Premiers are really getting screwed on options in this case. The CRJ700s were bad enough, but this is over-the-top.
I've been very patient through the merger pains, and I've found UA to be "less bad" than many others who post regularly here, but his is such a critical connection point for me that I'm at a loss as to what to do.
If this doesn't change, I'm going to seriously consider other options. Having to go through IAH to get to Dallas, this is not the way I want to finish a long day of flying. UAs RJ fever has finally affected me personally, and I'm joining the bandwagon that says, "Enough already!"
Jan 8, 2014, 7:31 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: CO
Programs: UA OG-1K, Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,360
United's Reliance on CRJs
I just don't get United's love affair with CRJs. I'm based in DEN and you can't get to anywhere it seems in the Mississippi/Ohio valley with out getting stuck in a CRJ. F9 flies 320s, WN flies 737s to STL, DAY, CVG, SDF, BNA, IND from DEN and MDW.
I've heard the argument the the CRJs mean more flights, but that doesn't seem to be true since other carriers will have often the same number of flights with bigger gear.
I thought maybe it was to keep ORD a hub for the midwest, but to get from ORD to these destinations means getting on a CRJ.
On an ancillary issue, why do they seem to drag CRJ aircraft all over the place during the day? When ever I talk to a CRJ crew they usually have been dragged all over the midwest and north east, almost guaranteeing that they will get delayed at some point. It seems that if there is a hiccup somewhere in the system, the CRJs get all out of sorts.
Are their any articles published where they talk about this strategy in a rational way?
I was on one of the new bigger RJs that actually have usable OHB on a DEN-PIT flight- is that one of the new C-series? It was still 2+2. Are these going to become more common? 3 hours in a CRJ or ERJ just ends up being brutal.
All this CRJ silliness reminds me of the early 2000s when I was based in CVG and Delta ran those CRJs hard everywhere like a Chinese fire drill. That didn't work out in the long run.
I'm not a gear head, but these planes are cramped- you often can't put your feet flat on the floor due to the curve of the cabin sidewall. The seats are smaller- like the size of the passenger varies with the size of plane? No entertainment system, very limited services. They should call it three-quarters class, not First Class when its available. God love the pilots, but from what I've heard from other pilots doesn't give me warm and fuzzies about their level of experience.
I know someone will say that we're lucky they aren't prop jobs, but that doesn't square with the original intent of these RJ aircraft versus how they are used today and the fact that other providers fly full service gear.
I've heard the argument the the CRJs mean more flights, but that doesn't seem to be true since other carriers will have often the same number of flights with bigger gear.
I thought maybe it was to keep ORD a hub for the midwest, but to get from ORD to these destinations means getting on a CRJ.
On an ancillary issue, why do they seem to drag CRJ aircraft all over the place during the day? When ever I talk to a CRJ crew they usually have been dragged all over the midwest and north east, almost guaranteeing that they will get delayed at some point. It seems that if there is a hiccup somewhere in the system, the CRJs get all out of sorts.
Are their any articles published where they talk about this strategy in a rational way?
I was on one of the new bigger RJs that actually have usable OHB on a DEN-PIT flight- is that one of the new C-series? It was still 2+2. Are these going to become more common? 3 hours in a CRJ or ERJ just ends up being brutal.
All this CRJ silliness reminds me of the early 2000s when I was based in CVG and Delta ran those CRJs hard everywhere like a Chinese fire drill. That didn't work out in the long run.
I'm not a gear head, but these planes are cramped- you often can't put your feet flat on the floor due to the curve of the cabin sidewall. The seats are smaller- like the size of the passenger varies with the size of plane? No entertainment system, very limited services. They should call it three-quarters class, not First Class when its available. God love the pilots, but from what I've heard from other pilots doesn't give me warm and fuzzies about their level of experience.
I know someone will say that we're lucky they aren't prop jobs, but that doesn't square with the original intent of these RJ aircraft versus how they are used today and the fact that other providers fly full service gear.
Jan 8, 2014, 7:49 am
#43
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
If you want to fly UA, you either need to move or get used to it as it is highly unlikely DEN will get much mainline capacity back. With WN there and UA's relative shortage of mainline equipment, it is just not going to happen. You are lucky though as you have plenty of mainline flights on other carriers.
Jan 8, 2014, 7:49 am
#44
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Well the good news is that pilots contract encourages UA to move away from 50 seater RJs. With $100 oil, they don't make much sense. The bad news is that among all USA airlines, UA is in the worst position with respect to moving away from 50 seaters. This likely contributes to why UA trails other airlines in profitability.
Well DEN eventually has to get the mainline to 50 seat ratio increased or the mainline pilots will strike to enforce the contract. But the contract is structured so that UA can drag its feet for a long time.
Investors are going to pressure UA to reduce the use of 50 seaters, and I suspect that result will be that UA simply cuts routes to make Wall Street and the pilots happy versus adding more mainline.
Good thing UA's investments in the concourse B extensions for UX were of mobile home construction quality, so that when/if gates 61 and higher are abandoned, UA won't have spent much.
The same cannot be said for ORD; that new UC looks like a white elephant.
If you want to fly UA, you either need to move or get used to it as it is highly unlikely DEN will get much mainline capacity back. With WN there and UA's relative shortage of mainline equipment, it is just not going to happen. You are lucky though as you have plenty of mainline flights on other carriers.
Well DEN eventually has to get the mainline to 50 seat ratio increased or the mainline pilots will strike to enforce the contract. But the contract is structured so that UA can drag its feet for a long time.
Investors are going to pressure UA to reduce the use of 50 seaters, and I suspect that result will be that UA simply cuts routes to make Wall Street and the pilots happy versus adding more mainline.
Good thing UA's investments in the concourse B extensions for UX were of mobile home construction quality, so that when/if gates 61 and higher are abandoned, UA won't have spent much.
The same cannot be said for ORD; that new UC looks like a white elephant.
Last edited by mre5765; Jan 8, 2014 at 7:56 am
Jan 8, 2014, 7:54 am
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Don't worry about loads, look at yields / PRASM.
UA isn't really competing with WN for O&D traffic xDEN. It corners the market at DEN for transit, particularly international and that makes lots of smaller aircraft selling high-priced seats a better strategy.
UA isn't really competing with WN for O&D traffic xDEN. It corners the market at DEN for transit, particularly international and that makes lots of smaller aircraft selling high-priced seats a better strategy.