screwed by the system - how do I ..... constructively?
Mar 26, 2013 | 10:54 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SAN
Posts: 2,426
I do however feel that there is a difference between confirmed in business at time of booking (via money, miles, or GPU) vs. in business at any later time.
If I had a confirmed seat in business at time of booking, I would likely walk off the plane rather than be downgraded for a very long flight. If I got into business off the wait list, I would have already demonstrated my (at least theoretical) willingness to travel in economy.
Mar 26, 2013 | 11:25 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 981
This is not accurate.
The downgrade policy explicitly addresses this. Any downgrade, irrespective of how one got into the premium cabin, gets the voucher + fare difference. Now if you were on a CPU, there is no fare difference to return, but you still get the voucher.
The issue is not that the policy is not reasonable, it's perfectly fine. The issues are awareness on the front line of the policy and the cumbersome nature of the computer system which deters execution of said policy.
When you're looking at 10-20 minutes per downgrade x 6 downgrades, unless you have an army of agents twiddling their thumbs, that's a very labor intensive undertaking for an already busy agent trying to get a flight out.
So even if the agent is aware of the process (not a given), it's often orders of magnitude easier to kick the can down the line and blow off the customer than to do the right thing because the systems are so bad. And unless the customer knows about the correct procedure, chances are the BS will work.
The downgrade policy explicitly addresses this. Any downgrade, irrespective of how one got into the premium cabin, gets the voucher + fare difference. Now if you were on a CPU, there is no fare difference to return, but you still get the voucher.
The issue is not that the policy is not reasonable, it's perfectly fine. The issues are awareness on the front line of the policy and the cumbersome nature of the computer system which deters execution of said policy.
When you're looking at 10-20 minutes per downgrade x 6 downgrades, unless you have an army of agents twiddling their thumbs, that's a very labor intensive undertaking for an already busy agent trying to get a flight out.
So even if the agent is aware of the process (not a given), it's often orders of magnitude easier to kick the can down the line and blow off the customer than to do the right thing because the systems are so bad. And unless the customer knows about the correct procedure, chances are the BS will work.
Mar 26, 2013 | 11:30 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 13,342
Mar 26, 2013 | 11:54 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, WN A+, Marriott LT
Posts: 893
This is not accurate.
The downgrade policy explicitly addresses this. Any downgrade, irrespective of how one got into the premium cabin, gets the voucher + fare difference. Now if you were on a CPU, there is no fare difference to return, but you still get the voucher.
The issue is not that the policy is not reasonable, it's perfectly fine. The issues are awareness on the front line of the policy and the cumbersome nature of the computer system which deters execution of said policy.
When you're looking at 10-20 minutes per downgrade x 6 downgrades, unless you have an army of agents twiddling their thumbs, that's a very labor intensive undertaking for an already busy agent trying to get a flight out.
So even if the agent is aware of the process (not a given), it's often orders of magnitude easier to kick the can down the line and blow off the customer than to do the right thing because the systems are so bad. And unless the customer knows about the correct procedure, chances are the BS will work.
The downgrade policy explicitly addresses this. Any downgrade, irrespective of how one got into the premium cabin, gets the voucher + fare difference. Now if you were on a CPU, there is no fare difference to return, but you still get the voucher.
The issue is not that the policy is not reasonable, it's perfectly fine. The issues are awareness on the front line of the policy and the cumbersome nature of the computer system which deters execution of said policy.
When you're looking at 10-20 minutes per downgrade x 6 downgrades, unless you have an army of agents twiddling their thumbs, that's a very labor intensive undertaking for an already busy agent trying to get a flight out.
So even if the agent is aware of the process (not a given), it's often orders of magnitude easier to kick the can down the line and blow off the customer than to do the right thing because the systems are so bad. And unless the customer knows about the correct procedure, chances are the BS will work.
Mar 26, 2013 | 12:09 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,092
I totally agree that the written policy is there, but agents don't follow it. I'm just afraid so many agents today would say that I'm owed nothing because I'm on a "free" upgrade. I guess I'm just polling the forum to see how much of a "fit" I should pitch when this does happen to me. What's the appropriate reaction?
Mar 26, 2013 | 12:30 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,443
I have read more stories about premium cabin downgrades on United in the past year than I did in the previous 5 years combined!
Mar 26, 2013 | 1:54 pm
#24
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,684
Had a downgrade when they substituted a CRJ from a CR7 when my CPU cleared several days before the flight (IAH-SAN-IAH of course did not).
Now at DAL it's an AA crew, so they may not even know about the policy
So I can try to get compensation for this downgrade three or four weeks ago?
EmailKid
Mar 26, 2013 | 2:49 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: CMH
Programs: UA Plat, 1.2MM, HH Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 756
I presume you were sitting upstairs? Interesting new risk vector for selecting upper deck. Also made me think of the sick of maintenance issues with 747 (or was it 757?)
Mar 26, 2013 | 5:51 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: RDU, NC, USA
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton something
Posts: 856
Will try to answer the questions/comments...
They did not say I *had* to be downgraded, but the SFO CSR did say something along the lines of "it was either this or cancel the flight"... and since they were moving other people as well, it was hard to imagine that they didn't have an actual problem to solve. Now as to how the "unlucky six" were chosen.. I have no way of knowing whether that was fair, or completely random, or whether they just went looking for suckers.
I was not given the option to take another flight. At the point they came and talked to me, we were about 15 minutes away from the scheduled departure time, and the entire boarding process was deep into chaotic.
I ended up sitting in 45H, exit row aisle. The flight was something like 80% full in the back - there were quite a few empty middle seats in the outboard sets of three. The initial seat "offering" was 45J, which is the exit row with the slide at your feet. When that was offered I said something like "there is zero chance I'm flying 15 hours in that seat - that seat shouldn't even be legal to sell to an adult passenger."
I was issued a coach BP (which I took a picture of in the presumption that at some point I might need evidence).
At no point was "flying the next day" discussed... In my case I wouldn't have taken that option, but it wasn't offered. Without ever explicitly saying so, the demeanor of the agent implied that I could basically move, or we could sit there on the ground until I moved. While I did not aggressively resist the move, I made it pretty clear I wasn't happy. I did say something like "this upgrade cleared two weeks ago, how are there not six people below me on the priority list?"... that question was basically ignored.
Fare/instrument: the flight was booked in H class and upgraded with a GPU. Am i within my rights (or common sense) to request an additional voucher for the something like $400 that I paid to up-fare to an H? When I booked there were seats available in S that were about $800 less R/T.
As far as moving to another airline ... well... I'm a captive. UA is our primary corporate partner. They happen to fly nonstop on the route that's most important to what I do professionally (RDU-SFO) as well as have the best access to places I want to go personally (SYD and most of western Europe). For corporate travel we're required to purchase rock bottom economy fares, which I can usually wrangle into something upgradeable. This particular trip was booked with my own money, which is rare, and possibly part of the reason that it's even more agitating.
Question (relevant to the general conversation but not to me): is GG OVS DOWNGRADE only applicable to overwater/longhaul? Or are there breakouts in the policy for different types of downgrades?
I was NOT sitting upstairs, I was originally seated in 7A.
They did not say I *had* to be downgraded, but the SFO CSR did say something along the lines of "it was either this or cancel the flight"... and since they were moving other people as well, it was hard to imagine that they didn't have an actual problem to solve. Now as to how the "unlucky six" were chosen.. I have no way of knowing whether that was fair, or completely random, or whether they just went looking for suckers.
I was not given the option to take another flight. At the point they came and talked to me, we were about 15 minutes away from the scheduled departure time, and the entire boarding process was deep into chaotic.
I ended up sitting in 45H, exit row aisle. The flight was something like 80% full in the back - there were quite a few empty middle seats in the outboard sets of three. The initial seat "offering" was 45J, which is the exit row with the slide at your feet. When that was offered I said something like "there is zero chance I'm flying 15 hours in that seat - that seat shouldn't even be legal to sell to an adult passenger."
I was issued a coach BP (which I took a picture of in the presumption that at some point I might need evidence).
At no point was "flying the next day" discussed... In my case I wouldn't have taken that option, but it wasn't offered. Without ever explicitly saying so, the demeanor of the agent implied that I could basically move, or we could sit there on the ground until I moved. While I did not aggressively resist the move, I made it pretty clear I wasn't happy. I did say something like "this upgrade cleared two weeks ago, how are there not six people below me on the priority list?"... that question was basically ignored.
Fare/instrument: the flight was booked in H class and upgraded with a GPU. Am i within my rights (or common sense) to request an additional voucher for the something like $400 that I paid to up-fare to an H? When I booked there were seats available in S that were about $800 less R/T.
As far as moving to another airline ... well... I'm a captive. UA is our primary corporate partner. They happen to fly nonstop on the route that's most important to what I do professionally (RDU-SFO) as well as have the best access to places I want to go personally (SYD and most of western Europe). For corporate travel we're required to purchase rock bottom economy fares, which I can usually wrangle into something upgradeable. This particular trip was booked with my own money, which is rare, and possibly part of the reason that it's even more agitating.
Question (relevant to the general conversation but not to me): is GG OVS DOWNGRADE only applicable to overwater/longhaul? Or are there breakouts in the policy for different types of downgrades?
I was NOT sitting upstairs, I was originally seated in 7A.
Mar 26, 2013 | 8:30 pm
#28
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: UA, AS
Posts: 2,596
I want to fly on an airline that takes care of me. If they forcibly separate me from my seat, as part of the compensation they should give me a voucher that allows me to upgrade immediately from any fare class (OK maybe just the one they bumped me back to or higher) on any future flight I choose, forcing upgrade space as necessary.
Unfortunately no airline I've heard of does this.
Unfortunately no airline I've heard of does this.
Mar 26, 2013 | 8:35 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 13,342
Fare/instrument: the flight was booked in H class and upgraded with a GPU. Am i within my rights (or common sense) to request an additional voucher for the something like $400 that I paid to up-fare to an H? When I booked there were seats available in S that were about $800 less R/T.
Question (relevant to the general conversation but not to me): is GG OVS DOWNGRADE only applicable to overwater/longhaul? Or are there breakouts in the policy for different types of downgrades?
Question (relevant to the general conversation but not to me): is GG OVS DOWNGRADE only applicable to overwater/longhaul? Or are there breakouts in the policy for different types of downgrades?
Mar 26, 2013 | 8:59 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: RDU, NC, USA
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton something
Posts: 856
Wow - tough grader you are... Asking for a travel credit to refund the money I gave them specifically to upgrade a segment that was then taken away from me is unreasonable? I've read infinite numbers of FT posts that seem far less justifiable than this. Given how they hand out travel vouchers for what appears to be any whiny thing, this doesn't seem all that crazy.