UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Jul 17, 2012, 9:30 pm
#751
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
I've been on FT a long time and a lot longer than many posting above.
I recall UA loaded error fares to Paris ex USA for about $30 all in - roundtrip. Even from West coast.
REVENUE fares.
Like this, there was a stampede to book them.
UA started playing hard-ball and refused to honour them.
Then the media got hold of it "Airline makes error and tells good customers to pound sand"
Within a DAY the coin had flipped - UA were all over the media with a beaming spokesperson saying saying :
"Shucks we goofed and OF COURSE all those lucky folks who noticed our mistake will get their flights"
They all earned miles, and I think were upgradeable if you had SWUs, as I recall.
Many a FT'er made 1K that year for a couple of Ben Franklins.
Someone may have the link to that lonnnnnnnnnnnnng thread?
Anyway it showed a far wiser UA ... cop it on the chin and turn a mistake into a PR Plus.
The current "United" seems to actively seek terrible PR .. maybe that attracts the Kettles they so desire these days to fiill the planes?
.
I recall UA loaded error fares to Paris ex USA for about $30 all in - roundtrip. Even from West coast.
REVENUE fares.
Like this, there was a stampede to book them.
UA started playing hard-ball and refused to honour them.
Then the media got hold of it "Airline makes error and tells good customers to pound sand"
Within a DAY the coin had flipped - UA were all over the media with a beaming spokesperson saying saying :
"Shucks we goofed and OF COURSE all those lucky folks who noticed our mistake will get their flights"
They all earned miles, and I think were upgradeable if you had SWUs, as I recall.
Many a FT'er made 1K that year for a couple of Ben Franklins.
Someone may have the link to that lonnnnnnnnnnnnng thread?
Anyway it showed a far wiser UA ... cop it on the chin and turn a mistake into a PR Plus.
The current "United" seems to actively seek terrible PR .. maybe that attracts the Kettles they so desire these days to fiill the planes?
.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:36 pm
#752
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,062
One of my biggest pet peeves in life is hypocrisy. None of us here are completely virtuous. I'd argue that most of us came to FT in the first place as a place to share ideas on how to gain something from our chosen airline. If we all wanted to play 100% by the rules United set up, why does FT exist in the first place? I'd just ask Alex all of my questions.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:38 pm
#753
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
OK, call me clueless. What does this have to do with fuel-dumping? Did somebody manage to dump the taxes? If so, they are my hero.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:39 pm
#754
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
That was what made UA go Ch 11 twice, I think, being nice like that.
Now it is "too bad, move on folks..."
They even gave me 200$ voucher for a compliment (for my concern) in the past!
Now it is "too bad, move on folks..."
They even gave me 200$ voucher for a compliment (for my concern) in the past!
I've been on FT a long time and a lot longer than many posting above.
I recall UA loaded error fares to Paris ex USA for about $30 all in - roundtrip. Even from West coast.
REVENUE fares.
Like this, there was a stampede to book them.
UA started playing hard-ball and refused to honour them.
Then the media got hold of it "Airline makes error and tells good customers to pound sand"
Within a DAY the coin had flipped - UA were all over the media with a beaming spokesperson saying saying :
"Shucks we goofed and OF COURSE all those lucky folks who noticed our mistake will get their flights"
They all earned miles, and I think were upgradeable if you had SWUs, as I recall.
Many a FT'er made 1K that year for a couple of Ben Franklins.
Someone may have the link to that lonnnnnnnnnnnnng thread?
Anyway it showed a far wiser UA ... cop it on the chin and turn a mistake into a PR Plus.
The current "United" seems to actively seek terrible PR .. maybe that attracts the Kettles they so desire these days to fiill the planes?
.
I recall UA loaded error fares to Paris ex USA for about $30 all in - roundtrip. Even from West coast.
REVENUE fares.
Like this, there was a stampede to book them.
UA started playing hard-ball and refused to honour them.
Then the media got hold of it "Airline makes error and tells good customers to pound sand"
Within a DAY the coin had flipped - UA were all over the media with a beaming spokesperson saying saying :
"Shucks we goofed and OF COURSE all those lucky folks who noticed our mistake will get their flights"
They all earned miles, and I think were upgradeable if you had SWUs, as I recall.
Many a FT'er made 1K that year for a couple of Ben Franklins.
Someone may have the link to that lonnnnnnnnnnnnng thread?
Anyway it showed a far wiser UA ... cop it on the chin and turn a mistake into a PR Plus.
The current "United" seems to actively seek terrible PR .. maybe that attracts the Kettles they so desire these days to fiill the planes?
.
Last edited by ffI; Jul 17, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Jul 17, 2012, 9:39 pm
#755
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,062
Phone call is quicker, recordable, and farrrrrr cheaper.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:45 pm
#756
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,998
That is why so many of the best deals on TI/NI are only exchanged privately now. There were too many blabbermouths ruining things for everybody.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:46 pm
#757
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
sbm12 from what I can see you seem to be on the side of the flyers to fly these and UA to fess up. I had thought your view would be more that of the airline.
I wonder, where is GUWonder. He is usually in charge of the "fleecing the customer concept" and he has been silent. I am curious to hear his opinion on this turn of events.
I am sure that if UA can sell these as anytime awards to any and everyone with an explorer card, for 140k each way, at 3 cpm = 280kx3=8400$ a seat is the max "cost" to UA. Real cost is probably half that or less. Assuming 4000 people booked these and at 4000 a seat it really is a 16 M loss at the most. Imaging the PR gain just from the news about this. I can tell you the traffic on UA site will go up with people looking for the next lottery, er, mistake fare.
I wonder, where is GUWonder. He is usually in charge of the "fleecing the customer concept" and he has been silent. I am curious to hear his opinion on this turn of events.
I am sure that if UA can sell these as anytime awards to any and everyone with an explorer card, for 140k each way, at 3 cpm = 280kx3=8400$ a seat is the max "cost" to UA. Real cost is probably half that or less. Assuming 4000 people booked these and at 4000 a seat it really is a 16 M loss at the most. Imaging the PR gain just from the news about this. I can tell you the traffic on UA site will go up with people looking for the next lottery, er, mistake fare.
What makes you think that they cannot do that? It isn't part of SHARES necessarily versus the CRM systems they have, but it wouldn't be at all difficult for them to get a list of all the tickets issued on this fare (I'm sure they already have it) and match that up with the accounts.
It arguably does in at least an indirect way.
The few hundred passengers who did book these taking up huge chunks of the F/C inventory will just further alienate folks most upset that they don't think their upgrades are clearing or that they cannot ever find award inventory. That's bad for business and for keeping the actually valuable customers happy.
And should these be honored the airline is going to have to account for the costs somewhere. No, they cannot assume that they would have sold all the seats now booked as awards, but they certainly would have sold some of them. That's real money lost. That ends up costing all passengers in an indirect way, assuming they try to make it up rather than just watching it float away to China.
It arguably does in at least an indirect way.
The few hundred passengers who did book these taking up huge chunks of the F/C inventory will just further alienate folks most upset that they don't think their upgrades are clearing or that they cannot ever find award inventory. That's bad for business and for keeping the actually valuable customers happy.
And should these be honored the airline is going to have to account for the costs somewhere. No, they cannot assume that they would have sold all the seats now booked as awards, but they certainly would have sold some of them. That's real money lost. That ends up costing all passengers in an indirect way, assuming they try to make it up rather than just watching it float away to China.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:51 pm
#758
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Programs: UA Plat (1mm), Marriott Titanium, HH Gold, Hertz Pres
Posts: 430
Even with so many people saying they left for AA, everyone of my flights from LGA/EWR/ORD have been nearly full this year. There are still plenty of premium passengers for whatever reason still flying UA.
I don't see the current "United" changing their mind on this after the "over-entitled" remarks that were played out with equity investors and the SQ problems.
Great if UA turns around and flies all those people to HK (HK is a lovely city as I lived there for a year). Maybe they change their mind (DOT or bad publicity) but heads are probably spinning in Chicago trying to figure out next steps.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:51 pm
#759
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
I'm just curious, have you ever taken advantage of a skykit, or appreciation card? Did you ever get a $200+ cert for a faulty lightbulb or footrest? Do you honestly think that such a case would warrant such compensation?
To date, I've not fought United over anything. I booked a ticket, they gave me a confirmation. If they later decide to cancel my booking, oh well, the game was fun while it lasted. But if they end up honoring it, I get a great trip. I didn't write the DOT rules, I didn't write UA's code, I didn't decide for them to use SHARES. I decided to log onto .bomb on Sunday, request a ticket to Hong Kong, and agreed to pay what United charged me. Plain and simple. By the way, I booked one trip. Not 75, not 10, not even two. One. The funny thing is, I already had plans to go to HKG, I just hadn't bought the tickets yet.
I've kept up with these threads from the beginning, and I honestly feel that most of the "haters" out there are on their high horse not out of loyalty to United (how am I not loyal? I fly UA 95% of the time, unless its absolutely not an option), but because they didn't get in on the deal, either because they missed it, or they believed at the time it wouldn't be honored. What you seem to miss in your sweeping generalization is that (to my knowledge) no lawsuits have yet been filed, because United has yet to actually make their move. And, if in the end, United is forced to honor their mistake, its because that's what the law says they must do. I have no doubt if the law allows them to cancel, they will.
I don't know how this thing is going to end up. But what I do know is that I'm extremely loyal to United, all on my own dime mind you, and I guarantee that a lot of you on your high horses out there have cost this airline much more revenue over the years than I am with this one award ticket. If you're going to cite this as the downfall of United, then think how many times you've asked them to bend the published rules on upgrades, E+ seating for companions not on the same PNR, baggage that maybe just goes over the limit that you should technically pay overage fees for, and many, many other "courtesies."
To date, I've not fought United over anything. I booked a ticket, they gave me a confirmation. If they later decide to cancel my booking, oh well, the game was fun while it lasted. But if they end up honoring it, I get a great trip. I didn't write the DOT rules, I didn't write UA's code, I didn't decide for them to use SHARES. I decided to log onto .bomb on Sunday, request a ticket to Hong Kong, and agreed to pay what United charged me. Plain and simple. By the way, I booked one trip. Not 75, not 10, not even two. One. The funny thing is, I already had plans to go to HKG, I just hadn't bought the tickets yet.
I've kept up with these threads from the beginning, and I honestly feel that most of the "haters" out there are on their high horse not out of loyalty to United (how am I not loyal? I fly UA 95% of the time, unless its absolutely not an option), but because they didn't get in on the deal, either because they missed it, or they believed at the time it wouldn't be honored. What you seem to miss in your sweeping generalization is that (to my knowledge) no lawsuits have yet been filed, because United has yet to actually make their move. And, if in the end, United is forced to honor their mistake, its because that's what the law says they must do. I have no doubt if the law allows them to cancel, they will.
I don't know how this thing is going to end up. But what I do know is that I'm extremely loyal to United, all on my own dime mind you, and I guarantee that a lot of you on your high horses out there have cost this airline much more revenue over the years than I am with this one award ticket. If you're going to cite this as the downfall of United, then think how many times you've asked them to bend the published rules on upgrades, E+ seating for companions not on the same PNR, baggage that maybe just goes over the limit that you should technically pay overage fees for, and many, many other "courtesies."
I didn't know about this offer but if I did, I would not have taken advantage if it only included UA metal but I sure would have participated if it included partners. However, I never would have expected them to honor it. If they did, great. If not I certainly would not be talking about the DOT and lawyers.
Jul 17, 2012, 9:52 pm
#760
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: UA 1K 1MM / AA PP, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 949
The bonanza of eCerts for any of a plethora of reasons only started taking hold maybe around 2008, post-bankruptcy. So it was surely not the cause of any filing of chapter 11....
Jul 17, 2012, 9:57 pm
#761
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: Marriott Plat
Posts: 113
I asked Alex
Alex: Hi, I'm Alex, your united.com guide. I've been designed to make your time on our website as fast and efficient as possible. Just type in a question, keyword or phrase below and I'll take you to the information you're looking for.
You Asked: Alex I booked an Award ticket for 8 miles. Is it valid?
Alex: To book an award ticket for yourself or anyone you choose, simply fill out the form on this Web page. You can book award travel up to 337 days in advance. Once you have selected your flights, you will be required to enter your MileagePlus number and PIN to purchase your ticket. View Page
Here's More:
Jul 17, 2012, 9:58 pm
#762
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Even if it cant be accomplished just some more ammo on UAs side for the DoT or the Courts why they should be allowed to CX all of them since people willing got them in order to sell them and not actually fly there
Jul 17, 2012, 9:59 pm
#763
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: United 1K & AA Exec Plat
Posts: 87
We all know what people here were going through when you could buy these tickets, one even got 75 of the supposedly, I myself just got one thinking if its honored I'll go, but at the time I was hoping it would be honored and thought that it won't be. I am premium UA passenger and thought that I'll get this deal. If United doesn't change their ways and don't honor it oh well it was fun while it lasted and will continue to be so, I am just not going to be one of those people complaining over a flight I wouldn't have otherwise took and only taking because of the mistake. I will be happy either way and not go on complaining about something that was taken away from me because I NEVER HAD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:01 pm
#764
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,062
1) UA has only filed Chpt11 once.
2) I'd say horrific labor relations, inefficient operations at their home hub, assets leveraged to the hilt, the disastrous "Summer of 2000" fiasco, crushing debt at bad interest rates, lack of rationalized fleet, etc.... all had a lotttttttt more to do with UA's filing than "being nice like that" on 1off fare flops.
2) I'd say horrific labor relations, inefficient operations at their home hub, assets leveraged to the hilt, the disastrous "Summer of 2000" fiasco, crushing debt at bad interest rates, lack of rationalized fleet, etc.... all had a lotttttttt more to do with UA's filing than "being nice like that" on 1off fare flops.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:11 pm
#765
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,423
I'm not sure what else there is to say about the ethics of this mistake award offer. Maybe discussion of this topic should be suspended at this point?
Meanwhile, I AM interested in 2 very important topics that are getting drowned out by the ethics banter. First, what about the travellers who are flying on these tickets and, I assume, the many more who are about to depart? Perhaps there should be a separate thread devoted to this very important topic?
Second, why is it taking UA so long to actually do ANYTHING about the mistake tickets? We're at about 60 hours from the fact now and that's a crazy amount of time for UA to leave this thing hanging. Nobody would think the note from Shannon was sufficient, especially since the tickets are still currently valid and folks are presumably using them every day.
Meanwhile, I AM interested in 2 very important topics that are getting drowned out by the ethics banter. First, what about the travellers who are flying on these tickets and, I assume, the many more who are about to depart? Perhaps there should be a separate thread devoted to this very important topic?
Second, why is it taking UA so long to actually do ANYTHING about the mistake tickets? We're at about 60 hours from the fact now and that's a crazy amount of time for UA to leave this thing hanging. Nobody would think the note from Shannon was sufficient, especially since the tickets are still currently valid and folks are presumably using them every day.