bangkokiscool

This morning the twittersphere is abuzz with the travelocity $200 coupon for flight/hotel with no minimum spend as folks figure out ways to game the website by booking stays in cheap-o hotels in Asia they have no intention of ever staying in or vice versa. Obviously TL has screwed up the coupon here as it's not in the business of taking off $200 from airfares or hotel stays unless it's profitable. So call it a "mistake coupon."

I'm trying to figure out why this 4 mile award deal ignited such a firestorm of criticism while I haven't heard or read a single peep about how folks getting in on this deal are ripping off travelocity. As I go through the moral arguments raised in this thread (UA didn't mean to deceive anyone, customers knew it was too good to be true, obvious mistake, these customers aren't true loyalists, etc), I find they can easily apply to travelocity if TL decides to cancel all bookings under this coupon and start over. And yet, I suspect if TL did that, the outcry would be equally ferocious.

weero

Good one ^ !

The stowaway in the overhead, so to say.

as219

Is this speculation or insider knowledge?

I've been taking a time out from posting here -- surprise, surprise, I've had nothing new to add -- but reading the recent posts, tow things occurred to me.

First, I know it's been hinted at here and there, but to my knowledge not spelled out: This HKG situation is really complicated. Even putting aside the award-as-opposed-to-revenue aspect, there are a lot of variables at play: standard vs. saver awards; all-UA vs. *A itins; had vs. didn't have the RDMs to cover the amended cost of one or more bookings; already flown vs. not flown; and booked a couple vs. a dozen or more seats. If UA's "solution" is ruled invalid by the DoT, what is UA supposed to do? Refunding RDMs is one thing, but reinstating all of the cancelled tickets may not be possible. But then what do you do? It's all a mess.

Second, what are the odds that we won't hear anything more, ever, from UA and the DoT about this? I've been going on the assumption that, based on the complaints and the press attention, the DoT would, at some point, have to make some public statement, but is that the case? Is it possible that it will all end with a whimper rather than a bang?

As some have opined, MRs usually don't get discussed at length in the relevant airline's forum -- they get discussed in the MR forums, where those who find taking advantage of such things immoral self-select themselves out of the conversation. Because the HKG situation was not mileage earning, it wound up in the UA forum, where people who normally ignore such things had it pushed under their noses. It sounds like this TL thing affects all bookings...that means the opposition to it is likely to be diffuse. I would imagine that if, say, HH was "selling" all of its hotel rooms worldwide at 1 point per night, and someone posted about it in the HH forum, you'd see a similar circus as in this thread...

uwr

colpuck specifically stated that the information came from United.

Instead of rolling your eyes at me, read the thread. In post #3031, weero rolled eyes at a previous poster who used "reward" instead of "award," I was was defending that poster against snarkiness.

It is not whistleblowing to leak confidential company information to someone suing the company for personal gain. Whistleblowing is alerting the general public or the authorities to illegal or unethical practices.

zombietooth

Yes.

There is something definitely delaying any enforcement action against UA. I am only speculating as to possible outcomes of their investigation, however, the public comments from the DOT since the 4-Mile Fiasco have indicated that they are looking at the intent of the law/rule and whether UA's practices were "deceptive".

Thus, they may be considering changing the interpretation of the rule to apply to only those instances where the fare mistake was an "unfair and deceptive practice".

Here, I believe, are the most recent DOT comments on the situation:

"As you may be aware, the Department recently issued a regulation, 14 CFR 399.88, that is intended to prevent airlines from unfairly and deceptively raising the price of a ticket after a consumer has paid in full and purchased that ticket. As stated in the regulation, such conduct would constitute a prohibited unfair and deceptive practice under a statute enacted by Congress, 49 USC 41712. The goal of our investigation is to determine whether UAL has acted unfairly or deceptively to consumers who acquired Mileage Plus Awards tickets as described above. Please note that, regardless of the outcome of our investigation, consumers are free to pursue claims (e.g., a breach of contract claim) against the airline in an appropriate civil court for monetary damages and other remedies particular to their situation."

For reference, here is the link:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/viewfr...om+the+Wing%29

SFO777

At least they had the good sense to limit it to 3,500 bookings so their max exposure is $700K... assuming their IT system knows how to count.

allofthelights

I don't think the regulation ever intended for airlines to be frauded for millions of dollars due to obvious IT glitches.

SFO777

No doubt you are referring to Korean Airlines.

colpuck

Fail.

burmans

Well there was no public statement in the RGN case but that's not the same as nothing happening.
At a minimum I think those who had the multi-leg booking had a reasonable case so am expecting to hear something.

Agree that this is the case but also note that this is not about whether this is a mistake or not, UA's language has moved away from saying this is a mistake to saying that you were informed all along as to what the right fare was. I see no evidence in DOT's language about the fact that the basic concept of a mistake is being reviewed.

weero

Given the circumstances, UA might definitely attempt something which is not lawful or at least not in the spirit of the law. So it is whistleblowing. Preemptive but whistleblowing.

jammanxc

FYI AA vacations, orbitz, expedia, and travelocity often runs these vacation package promos and they get game'd all the time.. did you miss out on them? It happens every year and they do not cancel them.. it gets honored.

steve64

The airline was not frauded.
The airline asked for 4 miles for payment, the customer agreed. How is that fraud

So anytime that Spirit has had $9 sales, any passenger who was lucky enough to score a seat at that fare should be worried that they're committing fraud ? How can the customer be expected to differentiate between a mistake fare versus low ball, free publicity grabbing promo fare ??

To put it another way ...
(debating UA's rebuttal that the stated price all over the web/FF T&C/etc that such a fare is NOT priced at 4 miles, thus we're ok) ...
You walk into the "DollarOrTwo" store to buy a widget.
As you walk in, you see the big poster stating "all items priced between $1 and $2"
That concerns you a wee bit since you're only here because your friend said they had widgets for 22 cents.
You need a new widget so bad that you'd pay $1 or 2 for one, but 22 cents would be so sweet !
You find the widgets. The price sticker says $1 with no promo type sales sign to be seen.
You need it so pick one up, ready to pay $1, but thinking about asking the clerk about the $0.22 price your friend paid.
Lo-n-behold, despite the banner at the store entry, or the shelf price, the clerk says "22 cents please".
As you walk out the door, the inventory control alarm rings.
The security guard sees you're trying to leave the store with a $1 item that you only paid 22 cents for.

• is it right for security to arrest you for fraud ?
• is it right for security to demand you pay the remaining 78 cents before you can leave the store ?

I'm sorry. UA advertised the price. They're committed to it.
Nothing wrong with stopping the misquotes as soon as they noticed them, but those reservations quoted at the mistake fare need to be honored. The "form of payment" is irrelevant. This was UA's mistake, not the customer's.

WineCountryUA

Maybe when one part of the page stated one price (more or less the normal price) and other part listed a very different, very unusual price (which had not been promoted by the airline)???
It sort hard to say that 99.9% of the folks that when this route did not realize it was a fare mistake, as it was hyped in the internet blogs.

The issue as to if UA should honor the fare mistake or not, is a valid issue -- but there is no confusion as to if this was a fare mistake or not.

zrs70

by calling the airline and asking them if there is a promotion going on.