UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Jul 20, 2012, 9:29 am
#2251
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Just received a reply from DOT
. . . . We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued. . . .
. . . . We will continue to investigate this matter to determine the full price of these tickets, whether that full price was, in fact, paid by the consumers, whether the airline issued tickets upon full payment, and whether the carrier raised the price after full payment was made and the tickets were issued. . . .
Personally, I think it's bad public policy for the gov't to make UA honor these tickets that were obviously issued due to a programming error and which every single buyer knew or should have know what the real price was and that they were taking advantage of a computer glitch. Of course, nobody elected me airfare czar and the gov't does sometimes adopt regulations which I believe are stupid and counter-productive.
So the controversy lives on. I'm trying to think of whether there's any real reason to file a DOT Complaint here to preserve my rights. Obviously, if the gov't orders UA to honor the 4 Mile Tickets, I want to go to Hong Kong as well.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:29 am
#2252
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You can call to have the fee waived. Personally, I wouldn't trust them to get it working online even if they intended to do so.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:29 am
#2253
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I just filed my complaint...fyi...they only accept certain documents....e.g. RTF won't work...so save as pdf and then send....i hope i hear more of an official response from the DOT.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:29 am
#2254
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I was wondering what prompted UA to say in 2007 that the policy was to honor mistake fares. I found this quote from UA on a post above:
"That is the right thing to do," says United spokeswoman Robin Urbanski. In 2007, United honored a business-class fare from Los Angeles or San Francisco to destinations in New Zealand that was missing one zero: it was sold as $1,062 plus taxes and fees instead of $10,620 plus taxes and fees.
There is a HELL of a difference between selling a ticket for over $1000 and selling a ticket for 4 miles. Many people really have no idea what a business or first class ticket costs. Even though UA sold a tkt for $1000 that should have been $10,000, it is still within the realm of possibility that "some" people did not know it was a mistake - or such a big mistake. Everyone knew that 4 miles was a mistake. The people STILL trying to take advantage if this are only making themselves look like fools. This is not what the DOT had in mind when drafting these rules to protect us. Someone above said he spoke to the DOT and the guy at the DOT was acting like the whole thing was funny or a joke. The whole thing IS funny and IS a joke. Those of you wasting your time, spinning your wheels trying to get "justice" just look like petty little people and it looks like UA plans to give you exactly what you deserve; NOTHING!!!
"That is the right thing to do," says United spokeswoman Robin Urbanski. In 2007, United honored a business-class fare from Los Angeles or San Francisco to destinations in New Zealand that was missing one zero: it was sold as $1,062 plus taxes and fees instead of $10,620 plus taxes and fees.
There is a HELL of a difference between selling a ticket for over $1000 and selling a ticket for 4 miles. Many people really have no idea what a business or first class ticket costs. Even though UA sold a tkt for $1000 that should have been $10,000, it is still within the realm of possibility that "some" people did not know it was a mistake - or such a big mistake. Everyone knew that 4 miles was a mistake. The people STILL trying to take advantage if this are only making themselves look like fools. This is not what the DOT had in mind when drafting these rules to protect us. Someone above said he spoke to the DOT and the guy at the DOT was acting like the whole thing was funny or a joke. The whole thing IS funny and IS a joke. Those of you wasting your time, spinning your wheels trying to get "justice" just look like petty little people and it looks like UA plans to give you exactly what you deserve; NOTHING!!!
Jul 20, 2012, 9:31 am
#2255
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Wake up everybody. Their systems blow and even going on 5 months post 3/3, we are still seeing amazing lapses in their IT infrastructure that SEVERELY impact us.
Signed.
One of the crackpots that is slowly being accepted in the mainstream.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:36 am
#2256
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This is one of the more cognizant posts. I have no dog in this fight but I can't believe the entitled attitude of some of the ppl posting here. You are NOT owed the extraordinary fare!! It was very obviously a mistake fare and to try to justify it is appalling, both in terms of the increased workload to United and the frivolous lawsuits....
I think DoT has an important job protecting the consumer. But this is not the case here.
...Personally, I think it's bad public policy for the gov't to make UA honor these tickets that were obviously issued due to a programming error and which every single buyer knew or should have know what the real price was and that they were taking advantage of a computer glitch.
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jul 20, 2012 at 10:21 am
Jul 20, 2012, 9:37 am
#2257
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I take it this is a rhetorical question, since we all know the answer. This is the kind of thing UA all too often does these days. And multiply this by many more serious UA screw-ups that (presumably unlike your problem) customers can't correct and UA won't take responsibility for, and you have a reason why some folks see nothing wrong with taking advantage of UA's mistake in the 4-mile fare.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:37 am
#2258
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Jul 20, 2012, 9:39 am
#2259
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Jul 20, 2012, 9:40 am
#2260
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Good point. Also it will be really interesting to see what happens to HeathrowGuy (on MilePoint) who managed to get this ticketed on the phone through the 1K desk, where the agent acknowledged the 4 mile fare.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:41 am
#2261
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1) A multi-million hit on their bottom line caused by their faulty systems.
2) Requests from frustrated customers that were hurt by their systems (sometimes to united's bottom line benefit).
Jul 20, 2012, 9:43 am
#2262
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IMHO, things like this are quite worthy of DOT complaints. It's also something I and many others predicted would happen when UA went to cancel the mistake tickets. Their IT infrastructure is worse than their customer service.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:43 am
#2263
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Just out of curiousity, do you think UA will ever fix its IT problems in the absence of singificant financial incentives to do so? Because I sure don't. Who cares what the DoT says at the end of the day about these tickets, if it leads to someone at UA taking IT more seriously, then all of this is for the good.
Jul 20, 2012, 9:43 am
#2264
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And knowing the current folks that are running united, what do you think will motivate them more to do somehting about their systems?
1) A multi-million hit on their bottom line caused by their faulty systems.
2) Requests from frustrated customers that were hurt by their systems (sometimes to united's bottom line benefit).
1) A multi-million hit on their bottom line caused by their faulty systems.
2) Requests from frustrated customers that were hurt by their systems (sometimes to united's bottom line benefit).
Jul 20, 2012, 9:44 am
#2265
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where should DOT draw the line on the size of the error, for honoring the tickets?
4 miles?
40 miles?
400 miles?
4,000 miles?
40,000 miles?
Will the people say it is unethical to travel on the 4 miles fare be ok with a 40, 400, or 4000 miles mistake fare?
you can NOT tell me 4,000 or even 40,0000 miles for first class round trip tickets to HKG is ethical if you think 4 is unethical. what is the difference if you know a big error made by the United's IT department?
would you have taken advantage of the error at 4,000 or 40,000 miles?
I just don't see any difference. going 40 mph or 50 mph on a 30 mph road are both speeding.
4 miles?
40 miles?
400 miles?
4,000 miles?
40,000 miles?
Will the people say it is unethical to travel on the 4 miles fare be ok with a 40, 400, or 4000 miles mistake fare?
you can NOT tell me 4,000 or even 40,0000 miles for first class round trip tickets to HKG is ethical if you think 4 is unethical. what is the difference if you know a big error made by the United's IT department?
would you have taken advantage of the error at 4,000 or 40,000 miles?
I just don't see any difference. going 40 mph or 50 mph on a 30 mph road are both speeding.
There is a point where it is no longer a 'incredible deal/steal' but just a 'discounted price'.
4,000 - Yes I would have taken it. That's still less than 10% of the normal cost.
40,000 - Maybe, if that was the round-trip total. Definitely wouldn't have booked more than one.
But driving 100 in a 30 mph is "driving with intent to kill". There are degrees of egregiousness for almost any violation.
4,000 - Yes I would have taken it. That's still less than 10% of the normal cost.
40,000 - Maybe, if that was the round-trip total. Definitely wouldn't have booked more than one.
But driving 100 in a 30 mph is "driving with intent to kill". There are degrees of egregiousness for almost any violation.
What most posters are missing is that there's a subtext to the DOT regulations, and we should be seeing it: The reason that the regulations explicitly say "mistake fares" are covered and cannot be raised after ticketing is to provide a deterrent from sloppy practices, deliberately or not, by inflicting a penalty on the airline that tries to get away with weaseling out of honoring its mistakes.
Mistakes aren't supposed to happen. That's why they're called mistakes. "Miss-takes."
In the past, airlines had impunity when the made a mistake. Now the DOT regulations say, "tough luck Charlie, eat it and let the customer fly."
If eating it causes millions of dollars in losses to the airline, than that's a darn good "teachable moment" to encourage that and other airlines to fix their business processes, controls, and systems to not do it again.
All us current or ex-UA/CO flyers are pretty disgusted with all the systems and business processes and bad decisions around IT and training resulting from the botched merger, right? Well isn't making United eat it and honor these EXACTLY the kind of lesson SMI/J needs to get about how much he screwed up? Me buying flights on Taca, LAN, and Alaska instead of UA doesn't exactly send a message the way a DOT order to honor the tickets or pay the fine does.
I didn't get in on this one, and I had no excuse, because I wasn't in jail without WiFi (to paraphrase MommyPoints BoardingArea blog.) So I don't have a dog in this race. I've never gotten this good a deal; just the Y-cabin $314 LAS to MUC and $214 LAX-LHR LH/UA combo meals a few years back, and getting screwed out of a better one on Air Canada a couple of years ago, months after booking. But this is now, and the DOT rules are now different and stronger, and explicit that mistakes must be ordered.
Those same rules also require one cash price quote, without the nonsense about what's base fare, YQ, taxes, 9/11 fee etc - it's got to be quoted as "what does the customer's form of payment get charged to be able to fly on the plane?" Put that concept together with the "mistakes must be honored" and these tickets did cost money, did have value other than the miles. A monkey could see that UA has very little wiggle room here, and that their UA Insider response was old-rules-thinking.
UA screwed up, and under the law nowadays in the USA, they have to honor their screwup. Which is a great incentive to stop screwing up.
Mistakes aren't supposed to happen. That's why they're called mistakes. "Miss-takes."
In the past, airlines had impunity when the made a mistake. Now the DOT regulations say, "tough luck Charlie, eat it and let the customer fly."
If eating it causes millions of dollars in losses to the airline, than that's a darn good "teachable moment" to encourage that and other airlines to fix their business processes, controls, and systems to not do it again.
All us current or ex-UA/CO flyers are pretty disgusted with all the systems and business processes and bad decisions around IT and training resulting from the botched merger, right? Well isn't making United eat it and honor these EXACTLY the kind of lesson SMI/J needs to get about how much he screwed up? Me buying flights on Taca, LAN, and Alaska instead of UA doesn't exactly send a message the way a DOT order to honor the tickets or pay the fine does.
I didn't get in on this one, and I had no excuse, because I wasn't in jail without WiFi (to paraphrase MommyPoints BoardingArea blog.) So I don't have a dog in this race. I've never gotten this good a deal; just the Y-cabin $314 LAS to MUC and $214 LAX-LHR LH/UA combo meals a few years back, and getting screwed out of a better one on Air Canada a couple of years ago, months after booking. But this is now, and the DOT rules are now different and stronger, and explicit that mistakes must be ordered.
Those same rules also require one cash price quote, without the nonsense about what's base fare, YQ, taxes, 9/11 fee etc - it's got to be quoted as "what does the customer's form of payment get charged to be able to fly on the plane?" Put that concept together with the "mistakes must be honored" and these tickets did cost money, did have value other than the miles. A monkey could see that UA has very little wiggle room here, and that their UA Insider response was old-rules-thinking.
UA screwed up, and under the law nowadays in the USA, they have to honor their screwup. Which is a great incentive to stop screwing up.
So what do we do? If we have tickets for travel in the next week do we just show up to the airport and travel as we normally would?
I would hate to go to the airport and be told-- sorry but we can't honor this ticket, etc, and have a dilemma.
Do we call UA to reconfirm or something-- but we're attracting more attneinton? Not sure...
I would hate to go to the airport and be told-- sorry but we can't honor this ticket, etc, and have a dilemma.
Do we call UA to reconfirm or something-- but we're attracting more attneinton? Not sure...
Therein lies the answer to UA's problem. Overbook J and F, and IDB all the 4 milers.