aCavalierInCoach

PassPlus Secure looks like it is dropping domestic economy fares down to M. This seems only fair as booking into Y and B permitted instant upgrading, kind of a hack to the system. I'm wondering if this will also be instituted for government fares? -- anyone have any insight into how those contracts are set?

Seems to give the right incentives (fully flexible fare, but no bonus PQM/upgrading benefits aside from being at the top of the rest of the pecking order within your elite group).

applezz13

1Ks will still be able to upgrade the M fares.

aCavalierInCoach

Sure -- but they're really going to have to earn it without the 50% bonus, and a 1K getting an advance upgrade on an M fare (where they had a solid shot at an upgrade even within the window), seems a lot less offensive than a silver poaching the upgrade at booking.

Axey

Unbelievable how much United has completely dismantled Passplus.

exerda

I don't think you can read too much into the dismantling of PassPlus w/r/t government fares and instant upgrades.

The solution (at least as far as T&C go) would be simple: exclude YCA fares from instant upgrade eligibility. Now, getting the UA IT systems to actually implement that policy change would be the challenge.

Government fares do also include capacity-controlled buckets (and many agencies are requiring their staff to use them), but IMHO having instant upgrades on YCA fares perverts the whole "no paid F travel" policy.

aCavalierInCoach

heh... agreed. Just found out my co's new rates recently. All I can say is "ouch".

fastair

With 100% certainty, the govt fare will not fall below the highest inventory bucket. Of course, many markets do have a 2nd, capacity controlled fare, but every market, by long standing contract rule, must have an unrestricted, non-capacity controlled YCA fate, which books into Y.

qukslvr619

Or the solution could be to leave it as is. Upgrading exIAD was never easy and throw in a whole additional subset of elites (OnePass) and it dilutes the upgrade hierarchy. All I'm saying is everyone is crying foul that govt fares are the problem and that there are all these cheap fares out there that everyone is upgrading on them. Again most agencies must book into the capacity controlled fares first before they can book into Y. Yes you will get some markets that are exclusively Y but more often then not they will book into M and below which would only capture the top tiers. All I'm sayin is everyone seems to cry foul but I highly doubt that UA would even offer the ability to upgrade if they weren't capturing some revenue premium from allowing it in lieu of a TODs. My IAD flights are nowhere cheap so should we basically say exclude all corp contracts completely? Either way it comes down to an issue of everyone wants an upgrade and doesn't want to pay for it but regardless of whether your 1K or silver, nonrev or corp contract there is more than likely going to be an instance where youre going to be trumped.

lopez151

I really don't understand the issue with the YCA fares. The U.S. Government is likely one of the largest, if not the largest, customers that United has. Other large corporate clients negotiate deeply discounted fares, often ending up with deeply discounted premium classes or automatic complementary upgrades from full fare tickets; The U.S. Government negotiates for an enormous set of travelers that mostly travel coach, and chooses to use its negotiating position to negotiate for low-ish fares without capacity controls that book into Y class. Seems prudent to me.

What would you suggest the government do? We already fly coach everywhere. Should government travelers be limited to V class or below, and just cancel trips when we can't book into the discount fare bucket? I get that it is frustrating to miss an upgrade, but I earned my 1K status by flying 100,000 miles just like the rest of you. If I buy a YCA ticket, I should receive an upgrade, just like another 1K is eligible to do when they buy a Y class ticket. Or just like a corporate client might do when they buy a ticket that books into the F cabin per their contract.

okrogius

The argument isn't against a non-capacity controlled system. The unfortunate side effect of the current system is a 25k/year Silver can instantly upgrade their YCA fares to first at booking bypassing all higher tier elites.

Do you want some higher upgrade priority given you fly 100k/year, compared to a coworker who say flies 25k? (Currently, the first to book will get the upgrade preference - assuming both on YCA).

escapefromphl

Its not the 1K's its the silvers that go above them on the upgrade list because they have access to cheap Y fares. My regular E fare is more expensive than your Y fare. Take my current trip booked in E, LAX-MCI about $1K roundtrip, the YCA is $408. This policy will hurt United in the long term, it has to.

This along with TOD's and GPU's not working properly are the 3 most frustrating things for 1K's I would say.

exerda

Try life as a government contractor. We typically have to follow all the same restrictions as would a government employee (per diem for hotels, no F or C on itins under 14 hours, etc.), but do not get to book government rates on fares, hotels, etc. (e.g. none of the benefits).

I don't think most people are advocating making YCA fares ineligible for upgrade--just that they not be eligible for "instant upgrade" and thus be treated as a capacity-controlled F fare and with priority over everything else come the day of travel.

halls120

I love reading about the assumptions people make about those of us living the high life as a government employee. You all need to remember that the only government workers traveling like kings are those anal orifices working for GSA.

Our agency forbids booking a YCA fare if a discounted fare is available and the difference between the YCA and discount fare is more than the change fee.

I realize its fashionable to blame the feds for everything these days, but the UG success rate decline isn't because we are crowding the rest of you out of the F cabin. My UG success rate had dropped since the merger just like everyone else's.

fastair

In fact, it is infinitly more than the change fee, as the change fee is $0.00.

QBK

I think halls120 is referring to the change fee on the discounted fare. VCA fares may have no change fee (not sure), but some gov't agencies can use either YCA/VCA fares or standard publicly available fares. If there's a publicly available discount fare (G/K/T/whatever) for $200 with a $150 change fee, and the YCA fare is $400, then policy is to buy the publicly available fare.

Which makes sense, unless you have reasonable expectation of refunding the fare entirely (in which case the YCA fare is truly refundable, whereas with the discount fare you just get a travel credit).