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-   United Airlines | MileagePlus (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus-681/)
-   -   May operational performance (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1354432-may-operational-performance.html)

bldr1k Jun 7, 2012 9:01 pm

It could have been a coincidence but I had more mechanical delays and cancellations in the last few months then I've had in the last 5 years combined.

chinatraderjmr Jun 7, 2012 9:10 pm


Originally Posted by bldr1k (Post 18718850)
It could have been a coincidence but I had more mechanical delays and cancellations in the last few months then I've had in the last 5 years combined.

Mechanicals don't count :confused: The Airline lobby years ago convinced the DOT not to count mechanicals against them as it could "scare" customers away. The numbers we get are worthless. I'm not sure if they include intl but I don't think so. I just used an example. If UA has 100 flights and 99 are delayed but all due to mechanical, well they can say they have a 100% on time rate since only the one flight counts.

UnitedSkies Jun 7, 2012 9:11 pm

UAL stock is up over 1 percent after-hours.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/UAL

WineCountryUA Jun 7, 2012 9:20 pm


Originally Posted by UnitedSkies (Post 18718897)
UAL stock is up over 1 percent after-hours.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/UAL

might be do to this

United Continental reaches tentative agreement with AFA
United Airlines announced that the company has reached a tentative agreement with the Association of Flight Attendants, or AFA, covering flight attendants from the company's Continental subsidiary, almost three months ahead of the contract's amendable date. The agreement extends the current collective bargaining agreement for a term of 28 months beyond its September 1 amendable date. Flight attendants will vote on the agreement in the coming weeks.
link for United Reports May 2012 Operational Performance

PHLGovFlyer Jun 8, 2012 4:21 am


Originally Posted by trk1 (Post 18718782)
only United had had total traffic increases

Delta, AA, US and SW all had total Revenue traffic decreases

my comment was correct that on time performance also improved
so things have not been worse than last year and traffic is not shifting to other carriers as this forum alleges every day

"Traffic" is not a terribly important metric. It's easy for an airline (any airline) to increase load factor by simply discounting tickets. It says almost nothing about revenue performance.


Originally Posted by trk1 (Post 18718839)
Growth is growth. The actual revenue per mile is what matters. Easier to improve from a lower base.

Actually, in a business that has a perishable and finite product to sell "growth" of lower paying customers might not be a good thing @:-)

Especially when your competition appears to be selling at increasing prices.

Beerman92 Jun 8, 2012 4:28 am


Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer (Post 18720048)
Actually, in a business that has a perishable and finite product to sell "growth" of lower paying customers might not be a good thing @:-)

Especially when your competition appears to be selling at increasing prices.

We are going to make it up on volume! :D

Doug 1029 Jun 8, 2012 5:50 am


Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer (Post 18720048)
"Traffic" is not a terribly important metric. It's easy for an airline (any airline) to increase load factor by simply discounting tickets. It says almost nothing about revenue performance.

Actually, in a business that has a perishable and finite product to sell "growth" of lower paying customers might not be a good thing @:-)

Especially when your competition appears to be selling at increasing prices.

I'm with trk1. I have seen thread after thread about the increase in UA prices not the other way around. Look on MR deals and you will see a much larger number of discounted fares on DL.

UA-NYC Jun 8, 2012 6:26 am


Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr (Post 18718819)
Someone posted yesterday that UA has lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ELITES. If we believe that nugget of information, not only has UA last every single Elite, but they owe some as well to AA :D

I'm sure there are over 1MM combined elites now between the two airlines (remember in 2005, posted data showed 500K 2P, 250K 1P, 50K 1K, 20K GS, so close to 800K total). So not inconceivable! :D

UAL4life Jun 8, 2012 6:32 am


Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr (Post 18718819)
Uhhhhh.....I have always been a sceptic when it comes to UA losing business to other airlines. I don't think a few angry 1K and GS moving to AA will even budge the numbers. Someone posted yesterday that UA has lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ELITES. If we believe that nugget of information, not only has UA last every single Elite, but they owe some as well to AA :D

And yet we still see f cabins going out full with lists 60 deep! Seriously, elites haven't gone anywhere.

PHLGovFlyer Jun 8, 2012 6:47 am


Originally Posted by Doug 1029 (Post 18720292)
I'm with trk1. I have seen thread after thread about the increase in UA prices not the other way around. Look on MR deals and you will see a much larger number of discounted fares on DL.

A few anecdotal observations on FT don't really represent the yield and PRASM performance metrics of UA versus other carriers. Sorry, but I'll stick with the corporate filings for such numbers.

IMO the jury is still out on this issue. I think we'll need to see several quarters worth of financials from all of the major U.S. airlines before we can draw informed conclusions. Also the recent steep drop in oil prices is going to tend to distort the overall bottom line performance of all carriers. PRASM comparisons are going to be the thing that matters to these discussions on FT.

FlyingNut724 Jun 8, 2012 7:16 am

My read of the MAY numbers....
 
Here is my read of the May over May numbers ...

PRASM +0.3% (Compare to Delta +6%) (Compare to US Air +6%) (Compare to LUV + 5to6%)
Seat Miles +0.4% (Compare to Delta -0.9%) (US Air +0.5%)
Load Factor -0.1% (Compare to Delta +0.2%) (US Air -1.1%)
On board Passengers -0.5% (Compare to delta -0.6%) (US Air -0.9%)

Nothing for UAL to be proud of....

mduell Jun 8, 2012 9:51 am

It's not getting any better... data from the last 2 weeks -

On time departure rate per 1000 completed flights by operating carrier:
Code:

carrier | on_time_departure
---------+-------------------
 DAL    |              883
 UAL    |              769
 AAL    |              774
 SKW    |              844
 EGF    |              835
 AWE    |              902
 FLG    |              848
 JBU    |              826
 TRS    |              915
 ACA    |              784
 AWI    |              789
 ASA    |              919
 RPA    |              854

On time arrival rate per 1000 completed flights by operating carrier:
Code:

carrier | on_time_arrival
---------+-----------------
 DAL    |            872
 UAL    |            772
 AAL    |            773
 SKW    |            828
 EGF    |            830
 AWE    |            861
 FLG    |            835
 JBU    |            824
 TRS    |            885
 ACA    |            657
 AWI    |            747
 ASA    |            894
 RPA    |            808

Delta is killing it. Heck even UA's express carriers out-do them.

spin88 Jun 8, 2012 10:12 am


Originally Posted by FlyingNut724 (Post 18720649)
Here is my read of the May over May numbers ...

PRASM +0.3% (Compare to Delta +6%) (Compare to US Air +6%) (Compare to LUV + 5to6%)
Seat Miles +0.4% (Compare to Delta -0.9%) (US Air +0.5%)
Load Factor -0.1% (Compare to Delta +0.2%) (US Air -1.1%)
On board Passengers -0.5% (Compare to delta -0.6%) (US Air -0.9%)

Nothing for UAL to be proud of....

I have a feeling the OP used to set up hedge transactions for JP Morgan given his level of analysis... these numbers are what matters, and are actually from financial reports...

I might add one more figure, AA announced its PRASM was UP 7.3%.

to give some context, while UA did not reveal its revenue for May, if one extrapolates from its Q1 figures, had they matched Delta/US's PRASM growth (which is a measure of the airlines ability to attract higher paying passangers, i.e. sell its seats for more money overall) it would have been another $151M in revenue for the month.

To give further context, the "loss" of this revenue, multiplied by 3 months = their loss last quarter. Extrapolate this lag in revenue over a year and its 1.8B in revenue loss. Not only material, but the difference between a profit and a loss.

And since costs are basically fixed, its all pure profit/loss.

Also note that the AA status match (if it effects them) will not begin to impact revenue heavily until probably next month. And the trend vs. AA/US/DL is that the gap between UAs PRASM and the competition has widened, i.e. UA is falling further behind, this year. This is what one would expect if they are loosing high value traffic.

Its all very, very bad for UA. :o

unhappyflyer Jun 8, 2012 11:57 am

american posts strong imprivement
 
American posts strong gains/united flat

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/american-airlines-parent-amr-sees-uptick-in-traffic-big-gain-in-key-revenue-measurement/2012/06/08/gJQA66H0NV_story.html

Boghopper Jun 8, 2012 12:24 pm


Originally Posted by FlyingNut724 (Post 18720649)
Here is my read of the May over May numbers ...

PRASM +0.3% (Compare to Delta +6%) (Compare to US Air +6%) (Compare to LUV + 5to6%)
Seat Miles +0.4% (Compare to Delta -0.9%) (US Air +0.5%)
Load Factor -0.1% (Compare to Delta +0.2%) (US Air -1.1%)
On board Passengers -0.5% (Compare to delta -0.6%) (US Air -0.9%)

Nothing for UAL to be proud of....

The OP can cheerlead all he wants, but IMO the current environment (reasonable demand with reduced capacity over the past couple of years, leading to increased prices) means that all of the airlines should have seen PRASM increases. And they all did, except UA.


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