Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: The sum total of his evidence is vague references to electronic and written correspondence from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Mar 12, 2014, 3:54 pm
#2221
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,752
MM is now a United Gold.
I was United Gold all of last year until mid-December. My CPU rate was 0 for 18.
More generous? How can nothing be more generous?
Remind me not to do business with your company.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 13, 2014 at 1:29 am Reason: merge
Mar 12, 2014, 4:16 pm
#2222
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,888
Mar 12, 2014, 4:21 pm
#2223
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 650k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,953
I continue to believe that the upgrades withdrawal is a major distraction. The real swing is in reducing the mileage bonus that elites began to earn back when United introduced the two-tier redemption scheme. This is the big value loss, dwarfing the RPU loss to the point of it being a decoy. (And a chimera - see Always Flyin' @2229.) Imagine UA settling and re-introducing the RPUs, and thinking, "Heh Heh, we got away with the big one [the RDM reduction], and they don't even get it."
[Overwriting Goalie, as usual.
]
Last edited by Firewind; Mar 12, 2014 at 4:29 pm
Mar 12, 2014, 5:13 pm
#2225
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 515
No, it's ethically not right. I don't think there are any people saying that the change is good, and I don't think this issue has to do with exacting revenge on people who feel over-entitled. It's a poor business decision.
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Mar 12, 2014 at 7:08 pm Reason: multi-quote should be used
Mar 12, 2014, 5:47 pm
#2226
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,359
What about customers who elect to purchase "accelerator" miles offered by UA at booking and/or check in? There is a slight discount offered to customers when buying miles through the offer but there is consideration because a customer's credit card account is charged for the cost of the miles. Some of these mile purchases can be in the thousands of dollars.
And, what about customers paying an annual fee for a credit card so that miles can be earned in a frequent flier program?
We all know that there are credit cards that offer a cash rebate for purchases. Instead of a cash rebate, an election is made by a customer to "earn" miles rather than the % rebate. In other words, the customer is electing to forgo the cash rebate in exchange for miles. Is this not consideration?
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Mar 12, 2014, 5:58 pm
#2227
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
Really?
What about customers who elect to purchase "accelerator" miles offered by UA at booking and/or check in? There is a slight discount offered to customers when buying miles through the offer but there is consideration because a customer's credit card account is charged for the cost of the miles. Some of these mile purchases can be in the thousands of dollars.
And, what about customers paying an annual fee for a credit card so that miles can be earned in a frequent flier program?
We all know that there are credit cards that offer a cash rebate for purchases. Instead of a cash rebate, an election is made by a customer to "earn" miles rather than the % rebate. In other words, the customer is electing to forgo the cash rebate in exchange for miles. Is this not consideration?
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What about customers who elect to purchase "accelerator" miles offered by UA at booking and/or check in? There is a slight discount offered to customers when buying miles through the offer but there is consideration because a customer's credit card account is charged for the cost of the miles. Some of these mile purchases can be in the thousands of dollars.
And, what about customers paying an annual fee for a credit card so that miles can be earned in a frequent flier program?
We all know that there are credit cards that offer a cash rebate for purchases. Instead of a cash rebate, an election is made by a customer to "earn" miles rather than the % rebate. In other words, the customer is electing to forgo the cash rebate in exchange for miles. Is this not consideration?
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By the way - did any folks who were PEs by way of MM status protest when they went from having to buy or earn upgrade certificates under the old UA program to getting access to unlimited comp'd upgrades? I'm not asking about today when all upgrade rates are in the tank but back when PEs had a decent upgrade rate. Can anyone point me at a complaint that MMers should have to still buy upgrades because comp'd upgrades weren't on the original list of benefits that came with PE status? If you can find that complaint then I'll be much more sympathetic to complaints now about the cut in RDM bonus. Otherwise what you all were implicitly agreeing to was that your MM benefits were whatever PEs got and not some list that was set in stone the day you turned MM. The RDM cut impacted all 50K flyers (and 25K and 75K) and what UA promised MMers was a status level, PE, that was the level that a 50K flyer earned. Trying to argue backwards from a list of benefits or place on a priority list to induce an elite level really is at best a very weak argument (and in my opinion a broken one).
Mar 12, 2014, 6:02 pm
#2228
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA LT Plat 2MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 67,161
.... What about customers who elect to purchase "accelerator" miles offered by UA at booking and/or check in?
....
And, what about customers paying an annual fee for a credit card so that miles can be earned in a frequent flier program?
We all know that there are credit cards that offer a cash rebate for purchases. ....
-
....
And, what about customers paying an annual fee for a credit card so that miles can be earned in a frequent flier program?
We all know that there are credit cards that offer a cash rebate for purchases. ....
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Mar 12, 2014, 6:15 pm
#2229
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,359
Along those lines, if UA's premise is based on customers having not given consideration for miles and, thus, there is no contract, it appears that there is a failure to "connect the dots" because there is consideration paid by customers. Direct or indirect, there is consideration paid.
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Mar 12, 2014 at 6:32 pm Reason: spelling
Mar 12, 2014, 6:17 pm
#2230
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,752
Which, in my case, is completely true.
Mar 12, 2014, 9:18 pm
#2231
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,826
You did not purchase the miles. Why you bought the tickets is up to you, but it does not create a contract for miles.
Even if you give UA money directly for RDMs, you did not receive miles, UA actually retains ownership of them. Ergo no consideration in this case either.
They probably thought this through when they wrote the MM plan.
Mar 12, 2014, 9:31 pm
#2232
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,507
nditions state (in small part) this (underlining added):
These Program Rules cannot be superseded or changed, except in writing from United Airlines.
Mar 12, 2014, 9:46 pm
#2233
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
What does this have to do with MM? If you want to use this argument for why UA shouldn't be able to change the redemption chart then I get that. But in fact UA has changed the redemption chart on many occasions and no one who purchased RDMs under the old redemption charts have successfully protested this devaluation. So I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. There is arguably much more of a contract in the case of actually buying the miles and yet there has been no consequence in these cases.
By the way - did any folks who were PEs by way of MM status protest when they went from having to buy or earn upgrade certificates under the old UA program to getting access to unlimited comp'd upgrades? I'm not asking about today when all upgrade rates are in the tank but back when PEs had a decent upgrade rate. Can anyone point me at a complaint that MMers should have to still buy upgrades because comp'd upgrades weren't on the original list of benefits that came with PE status? If you can find that complaint then I'll be much more sympathetic to complaints now about the cut in RDM bonus. Otherwise what you all were implicitly agreeing to was that your MM benefits were whatever PEs got and not some list that was set in stone the day you turned MM. The RDM cut impacted all 50K flyers (and 25K and 75K) and what UA promised MMers was a status level, PE, that was the level that a 50K flyer earned. Trying to argue backwards from a list of benefits or place on a priority list to induce an elite level really is at best a very weak argument (and in my opinion a broken one).
By the way - did any folks who were PEs by way of MM status protest when they went from having to buy or earn upgrade certificates under the old UA program to getting access to unlimited comp'd upgrades? I'm not asking about today when all upgrade rates are in the tank but back when PEs had a decent upgrade rate. Can anyone point me at a complaint that MMers should have to still buy upgrades because comp'd upgrades weren't on the original list of benefits that came with PE status? If you can find that complaint then I'll be much more sympathetic to complaints now about the cut in RDM bonus. Otherwise what you all were implicitly agreeing to was that your MM benefits were whatever PEs got and not some list that was set in stone the day you turned MM. The RDM cut impacted all 50K flyers (and 25K and 75K) and what UA promised MMers was a status level, PE, that was the level that a 50K flyer earned. Trying to argue backwards from a list of benefits or place on a priority list to induce an elite level really is at best a very weak argument (and in my opinion a broken one).
We have been through this ad nauseum. Literally, to the point of vomiting. You are more than welcome to state your opinion - for me it is welcome, it creates a discussion about this. Let them mess with your "1K for life" and let's see how you react. I am a very peaceful gentleman, I wish the same success and peace of mind for others as I wish for myself. But I would love to have your 3MM f'ed up with and see your reaction. You would not chalk it up to "well, it's the terms and conditions..."
Of course, I don't wish you (or anyone) pain or misfortune; I state the above just to see how you would react. Because I know you worked hard to get to those 3 MM if what you have said is truthful (that they were BIS).
What United did to the "Million Miles and More Program" was unethical and simply deceptive business practices. The original intent of the program was to create a program that was better than any other program in the marketplace, to make being a MMF on UA valuable, since it was the most difficult MM program than any airline from 1997 up to the merger. Enhancements over time were made to retain their customer's loyalty - like mine. Also, for them to delineate the different tiers of MMile Flyers i.e. those who achieved status in 2001 got the benefits up to there; 2003, up to there; 2005, etc. Seriously now.
I flew and spent over $700,000 when I could have flown other airlines (it was my choice, but it was based on what I was told). I flew on UA because I was gunning for MM Flyer status - and if this was me, I am certain this included a big chunk of others.
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Mar 12, 2014 at 9:58 pm
Mar 12, 2014, 9:56 pm
#2234
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,359
You purchased tickets for which you gave UA consideration for travel.
You did not purchase the miles. Why you bought the tickets is up to you, but it does not create a contract for miles.
Even if you give UA money directly for RDMs, you did not receive miles, UA actually retains ownership of them. Ergo no consideration in this case either.
They probably thought this through when they wrote the MM plan.
You need to go back and read what he wrote along with what others wrote.
You also need to look at the web pages on united.com where it says, among other things, "purchase" of miles and "buy" miles, then apply the definition of those words to the facts.
Definition of purchase: obtain by paying money or its equivalent -
Definition of buy: purchase
As stated previously, many credit card companies offer a rebate on purchases, usually 2%, provided a customer waives receiving "miles" or "points" for purchases. This means, if a customer possesses a credit card that awards miles or points, the customer DOES NOT get the % rebate.
Now, let us connect the dots - no rebate = money that is not returned to the customer. Forego money = equivalent to a purchase of miles or points.
Incidentally, UA is silent on the ownership of miles with respect to an outright purchase of miles versus the awarding of miles for flying.
Ergo, according to whom?
Here is the UA page for your convenience:
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...r/default.aspx
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Mar 12, 2014 at 10:08 pm Reason: addendum
Mar 12, 2014, 10:06 pm
#2235
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
You purchased tickets for which you gave UA consideration for travel.
You did not purchase the miles. Why you bought the tickets is up to you, but it does not create a contract for miles.
Even if you give UA money directly for RDMs, you did not receive miles, UA actually retains ownership of them. Ergo no consideration in this case either.
They probably thought this through when they wrote the MM plan.
You did not purchase the miles. Why you bought the tickets is up to you, but it does not create a contract for miles.
Even if you give UA money directly for RDMs, you did not receive miles, UA actually retains ownership of them. Ergo no consideration in this case either.
They probably thought this through when they wrote the MM plan.
The original intent was to get guys like me to spend money to fly on their planes. That's why they called it MILLION MILE FLYER. The average MMF took ten years to achieve, meaning a MMF was a 1K for ten years straight.
Jeff & Co., I believe, thought NOTHING through - it was at their whim, just like the livery and other decisions made in the beginning. They posted on the website one thing and did another; they simply didn't care.